RUmike

Where does it say anywhere in the bible that the Beloved Disciple = John, son of Zebedee?

guy_683930

I agree with you Iasion, but there is a clincher to your argument that is very important. A possible counterargument is James would not want to throw around names, to place himself in importance. But, let's look at a little passage in Jude:

Jude 1.1:
"Jude, a servant of Jesus Christ and brother of James, To those who are called, beloved in God the Father and kept for Jesus Christ:"

If James is the same James as in Paul "brother of the Lord", and Jude identifies himself with James, the (so-called) brother of Jesus, why wouldn't he make that claim? He doesn't mind giving saying he's brother of James. Jude, also, never mentions Jesus in a historical manner. However, he does quote out of 1 Enoch directly (Jude 1.14-15), which mentions the Son of Man as the Christ (1 Enoch 70.23). Could it be where Christianity came from, or something like it?

darstec

However I gave you four quotes from the New American Bible relating much the same thing as Amaleq13 stated, and that does equate to the official statement of the Vatican. Please read up on the significance and meaning of Imprimatur and Nihil Obstat.

RPS

My "here" referred to this board, where the Jesus-myth idea is advocated regularly.

Non sequitur. O_F was criticised for relying upon his underlying assumptions and ignoring the majority position of scholars with the suggestion that atheists would never do such a thing ("Our 'philosophical assumptions' are that evidence is what's required to prove something. Fancy that! We hold the accepted positions by scholoars and he gives us a link by a minority group to assert it as fact.")(my emphasis). My reply simply notes that many atheists here have no trouble advocating the Jesus-myth idea even though scholars seem to reject it utterly. Ya think some underlying assumptions might be at work there too? Pot and kettle seem well acquainted all around.

Orthodox_Freethinker

The New American Bible is, again, one of many competing Catholic Bibles from a broad range of New Testament scholarship.

Amaleq13

What reliable evidence rules it in?

Explanation of what?

What does this have to do with your mistaken understanding of what constitutes "mainstream scholarship"?

Iasion

Greetings John,

Thanks for your comments here and there :-)

Ah,
Perhaps James was embarassed -
Jesus wet the bed or something?
That's why we hear nothing till he was 12...
:-)

Iasion

Iasion

Greetings,

Pardon?

James quotes "Love Thy Neighbour as Thyself" - but NOT from Jesus, just "scripture".

James preaches about adultery - NO mention of Jesus' teachings.

James reminds people not to curse or speak evil - NO mention of Jesus' teachings on that.

There is no teachings from Jesus in the letter.


Pardon?
I said the name Jesus is mentioned twice in the letter - and it is.
But nothing ABOUT Jesus.
Nor any teachings FROM Jesus.


Why would anyone do that?
Why would anyone think someone would do that?
Why did you mention this bizarre idea?


Iasion

Iasion

Greetings,

Thanks for your comments :-)

Because religious figures would never do that :-)



Indeed.
This whole "brother" of Jesus thing is suspect.


Yup,
the origin of Jesus is in such writings as Enoch, not history.


Iasion

TomboyMom

I have frequently been heard on these boards decrying the bad manners of Christians. It is as though their religion requires them to sacrifice common decency. Orthodox: When you start a conversation, and someone else replies with a question, it is simply rude to ignore them. If you don't know the answer, then etiquette expects you to to reply, "I don't know." This is not simply a matter of social form, but of personal courage--the courage to admit when you're wrong. A side benefit of this for you is that it increases your credibility on the boards. The tactic of making assertions, then failing to provide evidence for them when challenged, undermines your credibility on this forum. Further, people cannot be blamed if they jump to the conclusion that the reason you fail to answer the direct challenge is that you cannot, that is, that you were wrong and don't have the chutzpah to admit it. I am not very knowledgeable on this subject, which is why I have asked the questions I posed in this thread. You have lost a valuable opportunity to educate me. If you know of any sources requested, would you be so kind as to provide them. If not, would you be so brave as to admit it. If you fail to do either, you should stop making this and similar assertions on this board.