Freethought & Rationalism Archive

DCHindley · 04-18-2008, 03:49 PM

Indeed,

The original series was published in 24 small volumes on a mail subscription basis:

_Ante-Nicene Christian Library: The Writings of the Apostolic Fathers_, Translated by Rev Dr. Roberts, Dr. Donaldson, and Rev. F. Crombie. Edinburgh: T&T Clark; London: Hamilton & Co, 1867-1872.

The American edition (which as you noted was pirated 100%, which was 100% legal in those days - no internationally recognized copyright law, I believe), and also published on a subscription basis, initially in 9 volumes (the final one was an index), plus a supplemental 10th volume:

_The Ante Nicene Fathers: Translations of The Writings of the Fathers Down to A.D. 325_, The Rev. Alexander Roberts, D.D. and James Donaldson, LL.D, editors. American reprint of the Edinburgh Edition, Revised and chronologically arranged, with brief prefaces and occasional notes, by A. Cleveland Coxe, D.D.
Buffalo: The Christian Literature Publishing Co, 1885-1896 (and reprinted endless times)

DCH

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roger Pearse

Quote:

Originally Posted by DCHindley

To us here on the western end of the pond (well, at least to me), the ANF editors refusing to render the Latin into English just seemed to smack of prudishness...

There was a certain stuffy-ness about the series. All that ranting and raving about "that certain Pettau" (presumably Pettavius) and the way Catholic scholars didn't truly understand the Fathers because they just didn't "get" reformation theology ...

There is some interesting background on this, which I came across by accident. As issued, in the Ante-Nicene Christian Library, those volumes had very few notes, and were designed to appeal to a very wide audience. All those notes of 'elucidation'were composed by an American, A. Cleveland Coxe, second episcopalian bishop of New York, some twenty years later. He pirated the ANCL, rearranged the volumes (admittedly in a more logical manner), and composed the attacks on Roman Catholicism which festoon the series. I have read a pretty trenchant article in the Catholic Dublin Review at the time, commenting on his actions.

All the best,

Roger Pearse

DaBuster · 04-20-2008, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NinJay

Considering what can be bought over the counter these days...

My dad had a copy of The Pearl (or via: amazon.co.uk) when I as a kid that I wasn't supposed to know about. There was some good Victorian era smut around...

Seriously though, I think the sorts of people who are likely to peruse translations of ancient texts probably wouldn't be shocked by what they'd find.

NinJay’s on the right track here, but never mind what can be bought over the counter -- consider what can be obtained for free on the net. My guess is that that the last thing someone needing a little titillation will be looking for is an unexpurgated copy of Catullus.

Quote:

Originally Posted by enlightend pagan

Rum, sodomy and the lash
Oppss, thought this thread was about the British navy

Actually (I’m probably dating myself here), my first thought was that the title of the OP was in reference to the great album by the Irish punk rock band the Pogues.

Toto · 04-20-2008, 08:01 PM

Rum_Sodomy_%26_the_Lash

Quote:

Rum Sodomy & the Lash is the second album by the Anglo-Irish musical group The Pogues, released in 1985.

The title is adapted from a quote often attributed to Winston Churchill ("Don't talk to me about naval tradition. It's nothing but rum, sodomy, prayers, and the lash.")

But wikipedia seems to be about the only source that puts prayers in the middle, and this site claims that Churchill never said that, but wished that he had.

But it is also the title of a novel (without the prayers)

Quote:

Rum, Sodomy, and the Lash - A Devon Lad's Life in Nelson's Navy is a book by Anthony Blackmore. It is a fictionalised account of the true story of Samuel Blackmore, a lower deck sailor in Nelson's Navy from 1793 to 1802.

Sapho · 04-20-2008, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vampyroteuthis

Quote:

Originally Posted by enlightend pagan

Rum, sodomy and the lash

Oppss, thought this thread was about the British navy

:rolling:

Or the birth of Australia, rum was even the currency of choice for a while, while sodomy and the lash were also quite popular

Josie M · 04-20-2008, 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NinJay

I think that the integrity of the material is best served by including all of it, even the unsavory bits.

This. Of course, "the unsavory bits" are what make that material fun to study quite a bit of the time. Almost every classicist I know prefers translating Sappho and Catullus to Cicero.

DaBuster, I wasn't even born when that album came out and I have a number of songs from it. Just pretend it's all about your love for Irish/Celtic Rock and no one will guess.

Civil1z@tion · 04-20-2008, 09:30 PM

Obscenities in an ancient text reveal a lot about the culture of the society that wrote the texts. What did they consider acceptable that we consider vulgar? What we would call obscenities in a text can reveal that. Therefore of course those sections should be translated and uploaded.

bopot · 04-21-2008, 12:28 AM

Censorship sucks, mkay? If a person doesn't want to read/watch/listen to something, they don't have to. As long as I don't tie them to a chair and read things they don't want to hear, they have not been harmed by the existence of such material. And even if it somehow is detrimental to society (as the thought-police claim), then I would quote Thomas Jefferson:

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it."

P.S. I love the title of this thread.

vid · 04-21-2008, 05:09 AM

I believe catchy big disclaimer should be enough to warn sensible people about explicit content. After that, it's on them.

View Poll Results: Should we translate and upload ancient obscenity in otherwise interesting texts?
Yes	57	98.28%
No	1	1.72%
Yes, but soften it a bit, leave the worst in Latin, or otherwise slow it down	0	0%
Other	0	0%
Voters: 58. You may not vote on this poll

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

04-20-2008, 09:30 PM	#26
Civil1z@tion Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Southeastern US Posts: 6,776	Obscenities in an ancient text reveal a lot about the culture of the society that wrote the texts. What did they consider acceptable that we consider vulgar? What we would call obscenities in a text can reveal that. Therefore of course those sections should be translated and uploaded.

04-21-2008, 12:28 AM	#27
bopot Banned Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: The American Empire (i.e., Earth) Posts: 1,828	Censorship sucks, mkay? If a person doesn't want to read/watch/listen to something, they don't have to. As long as I don't tie them to a chair and read things they don't want to hear, they have not been harmed by the existence of such material. And even if it somehow is detrimental to society (as the thought-police claim), then I would quote Thomas Jefferson: "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." P.S. I love the title of this thread.

04-21-2008, 05:09 AM	#28
vid Regular Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Myjava, Slovakia Posts: 384	I believe catchy big disclaimer should be enough to warn sensible people about explicit content. After that, it's on them.

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.