John Kesler

You aren't asking me to prove a negative, are you? If you know of any ancient writings which show an expectation that the Messiah was to be crucified--then resurrected before the general resurrection--please post them. See also my response to Shepherd.

I agree with the late theologian Reginald H. Fuller, who writes on page 647 of The Oxford Companion To The Bible that, [c]ritical scholarship regards the predictions by Jesus of his own resurrection (Mark 8.31; etc.) as creations of the post-Easter community after the event. Since, however, Jesus' preaching of the kingdom implied resurrection, there can be no question that he foresaw the corporate resurrection of God's people as lying beyond his own death (Mark 14.25). But there is nothing in his authentic preaching to suggest that he expected an individual resurrection for himself."

stuart shepherd

Christian Virtue?

Is there a special virtue in believing something that does not have convincing evidence?

God has many assets. If God wanted mankind to believe that he sent his son, born of a virgin, God in the flesh, to earth to be crucified, and be resurrected in order to atone for the sins of all mankind, so that whosoever shall believe in Jesus shall have eternal life, why didn't God provide indisputable, convincing evidence?

Unless there is some virtue to believing something without adequate evidence????

stuart shepherd

stuart shepherd

Faith in the Resurrection?

The Bible has a definition of "Faith"
In modern English, we could say that "Faith" is what a Christian hopes for, [Promises by Jesus],............without evidence that can be seen.

"Faith" is what separates Christians from FreeThinkers.
Christians have a """firm belief in something for which there is no proof""
and FreeThinkers have a firm belief in things that can be verified by credible proof.

stuart shepherd

stuart shepherd

John Kesler wrote........
I see your point....I think....
I believe you are saying, that the predictions of Jesus' death and resurrection, in the Gospels, are not the authentic sayings of Jesus, and these predictions were fiction created by the gospel writers after the death of Jesus.

Stuart Shepherd

~M~

You may want to acquaint yourself with what the apologists say about faith rather than your own inaccurate thoughts.
http://www.reasonablefaith.org/site/...rticle&id=5861

stuart shepherd

Dear ~M~
It's only your opinion that my thoughts are inaccurate.
Please lay off the ad hom attack.

Stuart Shepherd

stuart shepherd

What Were They Hiding From Their Readers?

At the crucifiction of Jesus, there were women watching by the cross.

According to the Gospel according to John, Jesus’ mother Mary, was one of the women.

I find it very enigmatic, that according to the Gospel according to Matthew, in describing the same incident, it does not say that Jesus’ mother was at the cross. But it does mention a “”Mary the mother of James and Joses.””

In a similar manner, the Gospel according to Mark, doesn’t mention Jesus’ mother but mentions a “”Mary the mother of James the less and of Joses.””

So who is Mary, mother of James the Less, and Joses? And why didn’t the Gospels according to Mark and Matthew, mention Jesus’ mother as did the Gospel according to John?

Jesus’ mother, Mary, had sons named James and Joses.

According to the Catholic Encyclopedia, James the Less, was ……..

We know that the Catholics are reluctant to say that James is Jesus’ brother, but we know from this description, that James the Less was Jesus’ brother and their mother was Mary.

So it is evident that in the Gospels according to Matthew and Mark, Jesus mother Mary was at the cross, but she is not identified as Jesus’ mother, but only as Mary the mother of James and Joses.

WHAT WERE THEY HIDING BY NOT IDENTIFYING JESUS’ MOTHER, MARY?

But look here………

Here Jesus’ mother is only identified as ,Mary the mother of James.

But look at the Gospel according to Matthew………

Here Jesus’ mother is only identified as “”the other Mary .””
What a demotion for Jesus’ mother. But in each case, Mary Magdalene , is identified with her first and last names. It would appear that Mary Magdalene was given star treatment, while the identity of Jesus’ mother was hidden. Why?

What Were They Hiding From Their Readers?

Questions like this raise serious doubts about the whole Resurrection story.

Stuart Shepherd

Toto

It's rather amusing to point to the words of William Lane Craig to dispute what the Bible says, don't you think?

Please note that apologists start out with what they want to prove (the truth of their religion) and shape all arguments towards that end. William Lane Craig wants to show that modern people who value rationality, which has brought us so many benefits, can also believe in Christianity. So he has distorted the meaning of rationality to be something close to "not clinically insane." And then he ends with Pascal's wager.

stuart shepherd

Nice Going Mr Toto,

I was a christian for more than 50 years. You might say I was an Apologist.
I swear to all, that when I decided to dump Jesus and Christianity, I immediately became a whole lot smarter. I think I advanced 50 IQ points overnight.

Stuart Shepherd

diana

To both Sean and Stuart,

I'd like to offer a formal apology for this comment. I misunderstood the situation. The post to which I responded (stuart's) was dead on.

d