Freethought & Rationalism Archive

jjramsey · 08-13-2006, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aa5874

I wiil show more fallacies.

Talk about a statement with an unintended double meaning! :Cheeky:

Quote:

Originally Posted by aa5874

In Matthew 16:13-14, 'When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Phillippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I, the Son of Man, am? And they said, Some say thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others Jeremias, or one of the prophets.

Those verses, repeated in Mark and Luke, show no one recognised any person, 2000 years ago, as Jesus Christ.

So, because people were purportedly misrecognizing Jesus, he didn't exist. That makes sense.

Quote:

Originally Posted by aa5874

Another blatant fallacy is found in Matthew 16:15-18, 'He (Jesus) saith unto them, 'But whom say ye that I am? And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. And Jesus answered and said said unto him........'for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven..... Thou art Peter, and upon this rock will I build my church'....

But it was not God that revealed the Christ to Peter, it was flesh and blood. It was Peter's flesh and blood brother, Andrew.

In the very first chapter of John v40-41, ' One of the two which heard John speak, and followed him, was Andrew, Simon Peter's brother. He first findeth his brother Simon and saith unto him, We have found the Messias, which is being interpreted, the Christ'.

Another repeat of the "false-in-part, false-in-all" fallacy.

aa5874 · 08-13-2006, 12:13 PM

jramsey, I have already stated that Jesus Christ is wholly fictional, without doubt. Do I have to go through the entire Bible word for word?

The prophecies, virgin birth, miracles, raising the dead, resurrection and ascension are all false. Did I miss anything? The story tellers of Jesus Christ are not known, their credibilty is in question, the authors knew that their stories were false before-hand. The authors appear to copy from each other. The NT is a travesty.

Can you show why Jesus Christ is not fiction?

jjramsey · 08-13-2006, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aa5874

jramsey, I have already stated that Jesus Christ is wholly fictional, without doubt.

Yes, you have stated it, many times. The problem is that your defense of what you stated is so flawed that even a mythicist criticized it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by aa5874

The prophecies, virgin birth, miracles, raising the dead, resurrection and ascension are all false. Did I miss anything?

Yes, namely, places in the Gospels that look like attempts to spin embarassments. I have already pointed those out to you, and you have refused to see their significance.

aa5874 · 08-13-2006, 05:46 PM

jramsey, I have found the Bible to be a fraudulent book, it has no credibilty. Jesus Christ cannot be accepted as historic because the Bible says so.

The life stories about the name Jesus Christ are absurd, the authors have no authenticity. I reject Jesus Christ as described in the NT. Nothing about him ever existed.

No Robots · 08-14-2006, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ted Hoffman

I see your point - a quadrilemma!

Ted, you are doing a great job of critiquing Brunner. Keep at it!

Clive, I wouldn't say that Lewis got the trilemma from Brunner. It seems rather that it was a standard apologetic talking point. What's cool is that here we have a Weimar Jew attacking a position that most people think wasn't articulated until 20 years later. For those of us fighting "Lewis Christians", this is very useful indeed. I would also say that contemporary mythicism is by and large an attempt to get around the trilemma. Thus the thinking man of today has three options: Lewis, Doherty and Brunner. Choose your weapon, sir!

jakejonesiv · 08-14-2006, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by No Robots

Ted, you are doing a great job of critiquing Brunner. Keep at it!

Clive, I wouldn't say that Lewis got the trilemma from Brunner. It seems rather that it was a standard apologetic talking point. What's cool is that here we have a Weimar Jew attacking a position that most people think wasn't articulated until 20 years later. For those of us fighting "Lewis Christians", this is very useful indeed. I would also say that contemporary mythicism is by and large an attempt to get around the trilemma. Thus the thinking man of today has three options: Lewis, Doherty and Brunner. Choose your weapon, sir!

Hi No Robots,

According to Brunner, where is Jesus now? Is he still a genius?

Jake Jones IV

Didymus · 08-14-2006, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aa5874

jramsey, I have found the Bible to be a fraudulent book, it has no credibilty. Jesus Christ cannot be accepted as historic because the Bible says so.

The life stories about the name Jesus Christ are absurd, the authors have no authenticity. I reject Jesus Christ as described in the NT. Nothing about him ever existed.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I have long since stopped caring what you "think."

Your conclusions may be correct, but you have yet to offer anything but ignorance, cheap rhetoric and sloppy logic to support them. Those things are exactly what IIDB is not about. And that sort of junk skepticism reflects on all of us who think the Jesus of the gospels was a fictional character. I, for one, would be greatly relieved if you would just... stop.

Didymus

08-14-2006, 04:27 PM

Greetings,

Quote:

Originally Posted by Didymus

I can't speak for anyone else, but I have long since stopped caring what you "think."
...
I, for one, would be greatly relieved if you would just... stop.
Didymus

I agree,
aa argues with the skill of a creationist.

Iasion

aa5874 · 08-14-2006, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Didymus

Your conclusions may be correct, but you have yet to offer anything but ignorance, cheap rhetoric and sloppy logic to support them. Those things are exactly what IIDB is not about. And that sort of junk skepticism reflects on all of us who think the Jesus of the gospels was a fictional character. I, for one, would be greatly relieved if you would just... stop.

Didymus

I will be very happy to know how you came to the conclusion that Jesus Christ was fictional.

I now list some of the facts that cause me to come to the conclusion that Jesus Christ is fictional, I would appreciate if you could point out what is ignorance, cheap rhetoric and sloopy logic.

There is no known original documents of the NT.
The authors of the NT are unknown.
The NT claim that there are prophecies regarding Jesus Christ is false
The birth of Jesus Christ is false in either Matthew or Luke.
It is not likely that Jesus Christ healed anyone or raised the dead.
All The words of Jesus Christ claiming that he healed anyone or raised the dead are most likely false.
According to the book of Matthew and Luke, Jesus Christ was called John the Baptist, Elijah, Jeremiah or some other prophet , he was never identified as Jesus Christ during his lifetime.
Jesus Christ fulfilled all the false prophecies of the OT.
Matthew, Mark, Luke, John and other authors of the NT contradict each other with regards to chronology and events surrounding Jesus Christ.
The authors of the NT are inconsistent with regards to the death of Jesus Christ, they are not certain who carried the cross, what the two thieves said , what Jesus said and who were present.
The authors of the NT are not credible.
The NT was canonised with known contradictory and false statements.

The list above is only partial, and there is much more to add. But those are some of the reasons why I regard Jesus Christ as fictional. And, like I said before, I would also like to see yours.

No Robots · 08-15-2006, 06:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jakejonesiv

According to Brunner, where is Jesus now?

It's sort of like that old joke: What did the mystic say to the hotdog vendor? Answer: Make me one with everything.

Quote:

Is he still a genius?

Is Mozart still a genius?

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08-13-2006, 12:13 PM	#162
aa5874 Contributor Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: the fringe of the caribbean Posts: 18,988	jramsey, I have already stated that Jesus Christ is wholly fictional, without doubt. Do I have to go through the entire Bible word for word? The prophecies, virgin birth, miracles, raising the dead, resurrection and ascension are all false. Did I miss anything? The story tellers of Jesus Christ are not known, their credibilty is in question, the authors knew that their stories were false before-hand. The authors appear to copy from each other. The NT is a travesty. Can you show why Jesus Christ is not fiction?

08-13-2006, 05:46 PM	#164
aa5874 Contributor Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: the fringe of the caribbean Posts: 18,988	jramsey, I have found the Bible to be a fraudulent book, it has no credibilty. Jesus Christ cannot be accepted as historic because the Bible says so. The life stories about the name Jesus Christ are absurd, the authors have no authenticity. I reject Jesus Christ as described in the NT. Nothing about him ever existed.

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