jgibson000

Actually the Greek is EUAGGELION (epsilon upsilon alpha gamma gamma epsilon lamda iota omicron nu)

Only military victory? Guess we have to tell the "author" of the Priene inscription that "he" got it wrong then, as did the authors of the other instances of the terms who apparently thought it had a wider semantic range that what you claim it does.

Cf. LSJ:

A. reward of good tidings, given to the messenger, euangelion de moi estô Od.14.152 ; ou . . eu. tode teisô ib.166; apolêpsêi to eu. Plu.Demetr.17: in Att. always in pl., euangelia thuein to make a thank-offering for good-tidings, Isoc.7.10, Men. Pk.415; eu. thuein hekaton bous têi theôi Ar.Eq.656 ; ebouthutei hôs eu. X. HG4.3.14; euangeliôn thusiai Aeschin.3.160 ; eu. stephanoun, anadêsai tina, to crown one for good news brought, Ar.Eq.647, Pl.765; estephanômenê ep' euangeliois Plu.Sert.11 , cf. Supp.Epigr.1.362.7 (Samos, iv B.C.).

II. good tidings, good news, in pl., LXX 2 Ki.4.10, Cic.Att.2.3.1, 13.40.1, Inscr.Prien.105.40 (i B.C.): sg., J.BJ2.17.4, Luc.Asin.26, App.BC3.93, Sammelb.421 (iii A.D.).

In any case, you might want to know that the author of the site you refer us to, Joe Atwill, does not read/know Greek.

May I ask, "sharrock", if you do?

Jeffrey Gibson

sharrock

Nope

judge

No , where is it?

jgibson000

Then please accept some friendly advice that you either not make any claims about Greek or that you present any claims about Greek that you might wish make with more modesty than you did with your claim about the meaning of EUAGGELION.

You might also want to check out the nature of your sources before you present them, as you did with the wretched Caesar's Messiah site, as something that is authoritative.

JG

Amaleq13

Here

Did you miss my question or are you ignoring it because you have no answer?

spin

This is the sort of dumbf*ckery that annoys people. You didn't even read the posts in which I dealt with issues other than loan words. One example:

there is a Latin idiomatic form translated literally into Greek which gives the explanation, ("into the hall, that is, a praetorium") esw ths aulhs o estin praitwrion, where o estin is a translation of the Latin hoc est. This phrase to give explanation is used nine times in Mark (but not once in Luke). The writer does the same thing again when dealing with the widow's offering: lepta duo o estin kordranths, "two leptas, that is, a quadrans", using the Latin idiom and supplying a Latin equivalent, obviously for a Greek speaking Latin audience.

The Latin expression for "that is" was not something reflective of Greek. The explanation using Latin terminology indicates a Latin audience.

When the coins of Judea were sheqilim and prutot, why does Jesus give as an explanation of "two lepta" a Roman coin, quadrans?

In other threads I have pointed to other Latin idioms, one being the Latin "satis facere" literally translated into Greek, ikanon poiew, in Mk 15:15. It doesn't make much sense in Greek "to make sufficient", but the Romans used it to mean what the English "to satisfy" means today.

I have also mentioned the strange "Syro-phoenician" in Mk 7:26, which only makes sense in a Roman context. In Palestine the expression would simply have been "Syrian" or at most "Phoenician", but "Syro-phoenician" is redundant. It is only someone in Italy who had Lybo-phoenicians that they needed to distinguish, ie Phoenicians from Libya, Carthaginians. And, as one can see, in Mt 15:22 she has become a Canaanite. Interestingly though the Peshitta translates Mk 7:26 literally talking of a woman from "Punica of Syria"!

I've just looked at the citation from Gundry which Ben C has on his website (bottom) and there are quite a few idioms ("turns of phrase") noted there, but each of them would need explanation for them to communicate the issues involved. They are all significant.

An exaggeration of belief. There are some Aramaic words. We've looked at them in depth in the past. Beside the magic words such as "talitha kumi", color words such as "rabbi", and those which could have just as easily been from Hebrew, there wasn't very much at all.

I have dealt with all those that you have posted on this forum and none of them survives the light of day.


spin

Ben C Smith

That would explain the reference to the apostles. Now, what about the reference to their followers?

Ben.

judge

thanks

Thr translator makes an error by adding the words "I say to you"

He doesn't give a literal translation word for word but captures the meaning of what transpired.

No big deal.

judge

Ok I looked at it. Can you explain what you find compelling about it? If anything?

Thanks

mountainman

Can anyone explain to the forum what Arnaldo Momigliano
is trying to tell us when he writes:

I am not yet able to answer two questions which are very much on my mind: whether in the Middle Ages there was a school of pure ecclesiastical history from Cassiodorus to Bede, to Adam of Bremen and to John of Salisbury; and whether this school, if any, was characterized by a special interest in documents.