Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Toto · 11-15-2007, 04:17 PM

The royal we in particular does not make sense there. "Behond, the man has become like one of Me???"

Clouseau · 11-15-2007, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

The royal we in particular does not make sense there. "Behond, the man has become like one of Me???"

It's very difficult to translate this into a smooth English phrase.

'"Then the Lord God said, "Look, the man has become as one as well as Us, knowing good and evil."' Ge 3:22

Robert Byers · 11-15-2007, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BWE

Quote:

22And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

23Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.

So, is he talking about angels? Other gods? I thought somehow the knowledge of good and evil was sort of yaweh's exclusive domain before eve satisfied her curiosity.

Anyone know?

This grade one sunday school!
Us means the same as when God said let us make man in our image.
Its the trinity. God, his son, holy spirit.
Come on
Robert Byers

OneInFundieville · 11-15-2007, 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert Byers

Its the trinity. God, his son, holy spirit.

How specifically did you get from אלהים/'ĕlôhîym to trinity?

OneInFundieville · 11-15-2007, 09:54 PM

(What I personally find really interesting about this specific verse is that prior to Gen 3:22, God did know good and evil. Humankind didn't know good and evil, only good. Weird little paradox there.)

Amaleq13 · 11-15-2007, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OneInFundieville

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert Byers

Its the trinity. God, his son, holy spirit.

How specifically did you get from אלהים/'ĕlôhîym to trinity?

Absolutely nothing but faith.

BWE · 11-15-2007, 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OneInFundieville

(What I personally find really interesting about this specific verse is that prior to Gen 3:22, God did know good and evil. Humankind didn't know good and evil, only good. Weird little paradox there.)

I think mankind didn't know either one. The myth is one of awakening so I assumed it meant that the state of awareness is the state where we can know pain and thus, good and evil. The Buddha too ate from the tree. Just it was the other tree. Great for happiness but kinda short on individuality. Maybe the west can synthesize the two someday.

Robert Byers,

I don't know how you can read Genesis 3 and not be embarrassed but whatever, it's you that's naked.

Quote:

1 Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the LORD God had made. He said to the woman, "Did God really say, 'You must not eat from any tree in the garden'?"

2 The woman said to the serpent, "We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, 3 but God did say, 'You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.' "

4 "You will not surely die," the serpent said to the woman. 5 "For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil."

6 When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it. She also gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it. 7 Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they realized they were naked; so they sewed fig leaves together and made coverings for themselves.

8 Then the man and his wife heard the sound of the LORD God as he was walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and they hid from the LORD God among the trees of the garden. 9 But the LORD God called to the man, "Where are you?"

10 He answered, "I heard you in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked; so I hid."

11 And he said, "Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree that I commanded you not to eat from?"

12 The man said, "The woman you put here with me—she gave me some fruit from the tree, and I ate it." ...

Salam · 11-15-2007, 11:17 PM

The word Us here or Eloyem is for respect. I don't know what do they call it in English, but in Arabic and also Hebrew -since both of them are semantic languages- this is called "the plural of respect" and it's used a lot.

Exactly like in the Quran, when God is talking about him self, God uses "the plural of respect".

OneInFundieville · 11-15-2007, 11:43 PM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pluralis_majestatis

spin · 11-15-2007, 11:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Salam

The word Us here or Eloyem is for respect. I don't know what do they call it in English, but in Arabic and also Hebrew -since both of them are semantic languages- this is called "the plural of respect" and it's used a lot.

Exactly like in the Quran, when God is talking about him self, God uses "the plural of respect".

You should read the verse. There is a grammatical notion of "partitive" (of a mass or a group) expressed in the Hebrew MMNW, and when preceded by a number it makes the partitive refer to a plural (a group), as in one from among many. It is therefore necessarily a logical plural and there is no room for your "plural of respect", unless you can put some singular which makes sense into "one from among ____."

spin

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11-15-2007, 04:17 PM	#11
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	The royal we in particular does not make sense there. "Behond, the man has become like one of Me???"

11-15-2007, 09:54 PM	#15
OneInFundieville Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Where I go Posts: 2,168	(What I personally find really interesting about this specific verse is that prior to Gen 3:22, God did know good and evil. Humankind didn't know good and evil, only good. Weird little paradox there.)

11-15-2007, 11:17 PM	#18
Salam Regular Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Saudi Arabia Posts: 440	The word Us here or Eloyem is for respect. I don't know what do they call it in English, but in Arabic and also Hebrew -since both of them are semantic languages- this is called "the plural of respect" and it's used a lot. Exactly like in the Quran, when God is talking about him self, God uses "the plural of respect".

11-15-2007, 11:43 PM	#19
OneInFundieville Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Where I go Posts: 2,168	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pluralis_majestatis

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