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03-20-2009, 01:53 AM | #31 | |
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The author wrote a satire based on this knowledge. I mean, it is pretty obvious. |
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03-20-2009, 04:53 AM | #32 | ||
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03-20-2009, 04:56 AM | #33 | ||
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03-20-2009, 05:38 AM | #34 | |
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This does, in no way, mean that the author was not knowledgeable of other works, such as the LXX. A fairly comprehensive basis for a Jesus story can actually be derived from certain occurrences described in the works of Josephus. The incident of the Apocalyptic Preacher in the Jewish temple, being but one easily identifiable example. |
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03-20-2009, 07:28 AM | #35 | |
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03-20-2009, 08:14 AM | #36 | ||
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What Shall and Shall Not Pass Away
Hi Jayrok,
Let me add to and clarify my point. The speaker regards this generation as an evil generation. The apocalypse is the coming of God, which is a good thing. Why should the speaker be saying that this evil generation will live to experience a good thing. The evil generation of Moses died before entering the land of milk and honey. Should not the speaker be making an analogy to that evil generation? In other words, he should be saying that this evil generation will pass away before the apocalypse (coming of God) in the same way that the evil generation of Moses passed away before entering the land of Canaan. As the passage stands now, we are getting a disanalogy to that event and it makes no sense. When I analyzed the meaning of the passage, I also found that there was a disanalogy between the first sentence where this generation does not disappear and the second sentence in which this heaven and earth does disappear. Again the proper analogy should be with this generation disappearing to heaven and earth disappearing. When we see a disanalogy, we often assume that it is related to an earlier analogy. For example, if we see the disanalogy, "A day without orange juice is not like a day without sunshine," we assume that it is related to the earlier analogy, "A day without orange juice is like a day without sunshine." In this case, it is fair to infer that originally the passage talked about "This generation shall pass away" (analogous to the passing away of the Moses generation in the Hebrew Scriptures and analogous to the "Heaven and Earth shall pass away" in the second half of the passage. Once we infer this, we have to ask how and why it was changed. Since it is identical in all three synoptic gospels, it is likely that the phase was changed in all three at the same time. It is the "why," the reason for the change that puzzles me. Perhaps the editor wanted to emphasize that the apocalypse would be happening soon - in this generation's lifetime - and so made the change to emphasize the fact that the apocalypse would be coming soon in the lifetime of the reader/listener. If we are basing the dating of Mark on this one passage and there is good reason to believe that the passage has been changed, then we can no longer base the dating of Mark on this passage. Warmly, Philosopher Jay Quote:
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03-20-2009, 08:25 AM | #37 | |||
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It would appear that the author of gMark was not a Jew and was not aware of Jewish tradition. The author may have gotten the fundamental story line for his Jesus story from Josephus and the LXX if gMark was written first. The inclusion of the John the Baptist story in all the Gospels and the even more peculiar mention of the head of John the Baptist being asked to be placed on a platter is paralell to a similar incident immediately preceeding the JtB story in Josephus where Tiberius asked for the head of Aretas to be sent to him. Antiquities of the Jews 18.5.1-2 Quote:
It is also noted that the author of gMark did not know the Jewish tradition for burial. This author wrote that the spices were to be applied about three days after the burial by the women. The author of gJohn corrected the author of Mark. This is the author of John 19.38-41 Quote:
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03-20-2009, 08:27 AM | #38 | |
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03-20-2009, 08:38 AM | #39 | |
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But I think Mark had knowledge of and used the Hebrew Scriptures as well. |
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03-20-2009, 09:18 AM | #40 | ||
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And don't forget Philo:
Flaccus, VI. (36) There was a certain madman named Carabbas, afflicted not with a wild, savage, and dangerous madness (for that comes on in fits without being expected either by the patient or by bystanders), but with an intermittent and more gentle kind; this man spent all this days and nights naked in the roads, minding neither cold nor heat, the sport of idle children and wanton youths; (37) and they, driving the poor wretch as far as the public gymnasium, and setting him up there on high that he might be seen by everybody, flattened out a leaf of papyrus and put it on his head instead of a diadem, and clothed the rest of his body with a common door mat instead of a cloak and instead of a sceptre they put in his hand a small stick of the native papyrus which they found lying by the way side and gave to him; (38) and when, like actors in theatrical spectacles, he had received all the insignia of royal authority, and had been dressed and adorned like a king, the young men bearing sticks on their shoulders stood on each side of him instead of spear-bearers, in imitation of the bodyguards of the king, and then others came up, some as if to salute him, and others making as though they wished to plead their causes before him, and others pretending to wish to consult with him about the affairs of the state. Mark 15:7-20 7 And among the rebels in prison, who had committed murder in the insurrection, there was a man called Barabbas. 8 And the crowd came up and began to ask Pilate to do as he was wont to do for them. 9 And he answered them, "Do you want me to release for you the King of the Jews?" 10 For he perceived that it was out of envy that the chief priests had delivered him up. 11 But the chief priests stirred up the crowd to have him release for them Barabbas instead. 12 And Pilate again said to them, "Then what shall I do with the man whom you call the King of the Jews?" 13 And they cried out again, "Crucify him." 14 And Pilate said to them, "Why, what evil has he done?" But they shouted all the more, "Crucify him." 15 So Pilate, wishing to satisfy the crowd, released for them Barabbas; and having scourged Jesus, he delivered him to be crucified. 16 And the soldiers led him away inside the palace (that is, the praetorium); and they called together the whole battalion. 17 And they clothed him in a purple cloak, and plaiting a crown of thorns they put it on him. 18 And they began to salute him, "Hail, King of the Jews!" 19 And they struck his head with a reed, and spat upon him, and they knelt down in homage to him. 20 And when they had mocked him, they stripped him of the purple cloak, and put his own clothes on him. And they led him out to crucify him.DCH (Lunchtime!!) Quote:
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