wildernesse

I've often heard that liberal Christians don't take stands against fundamentalist Christians--and that this apparent inaction could only mean that liberal Christians agree with the fundamentalist Christian viewpoint. If you agree with this, please list what you think fundamentalist ideas deserve to be opposed and what you think liberal Christians should do to take a stand against these ideas.

I'd prefer arguments based in Christian theology (any branch of theology will do), rather than simple personal opinion. Thank you.

Rhea

Not sure if I'll meet the grade, but the first one comes to mind:


Separation of church and state:
All liberal Christians could vocally oppose all fundamentalists in their efforts to force non-believers to adhere to Christianity.

All liberals could join the Americans United. They could all write to their congresspeople. They could take out ads, write letters to the editors and make a general clamor such that there is NO DOUBT WHATSOEVER who is the majority and who is the minority.

As it stands, there is very much ambiguity as to how much support the prayer-in-school bunch has. They _appear_ to have a lot. Enough to have the senate UNANIMOUSLY stand on the steps of the capitol and declare Governement-for-God.


Thing 2:
Fundies blaming non-christians.
Liberals could raise a similar rucus about people like Robertson claiming atheism and homosexuality is to blame for the 9/11 attacks. I mean clamor. It really doesn't cost much, you know, to make a clamor. They could let people know that it is not acceptable.

Thing 3:
Vague, sorry, will expand later.
Christians preaching to other christians. They can publicly rebuke people who corrupt Jesus' message. Make it plain who is the majority and who is the minority.


As it stands, they appear to want us to guess what side they're on and give them the benefit of the doubt. That might be dandy if their silence did not empower the people they claim to oppose.

BioBeing

"Creation science" and preventing the teaching of evolution in schools. Theistic evolutionists should do more to prevent the YEC'ers from promoting their unscientific agenda.

wildernesse

What is it in the Christian religion that should make a Christian do what you would like liberal Christians to do? Where do you find directions within Christianity to support church state separation? Or any activity involving public schools or politics? Why should a Christian of any stripe feel compelled to rebuke those who are not members of their congregation? I'll take Bible verses or traditional teachings.

Celsus

What proportion of atheists, agnostics, and assorted nonbelievers do these things?

Joel

trendkill

If this burden cannot be met, and there is nothing in any liberal Christian value system that would be antithetical to a takeover by extreme Christian conservatives, then I can see no reason why liberal Christians should stand up to the religious right.

If that is the case, then liberal Christians are just as bad, from an atheist's perspective, as the religious right, and they have no basis for trying to get atheists to distinguish between them.

Personally, I think it's pretty obvious that it is in the self-interest of anyone who values his freedom of conscience to vocally oppose the religious right. No chapter or verse required.

Llyricist

Well my take is thus:

1) The skeptics round these parts (IIDB) complain about what the fundies are trying to do and make law in the US.

2) The Liberal Christians turn around and say hey,...that's just the fundies, most of us don't agree with that!

3) The skeptics say, then why don't you stand up against it?

4) Now we have wildernesse saying, why should I? It's not part of my religion to oppose it!

wildernesse, that looks like the old having cake and eating it too. Are you personally opposed to those things or not?? If not, then you aren't one of those liberal Christians from 2) above, if so, then your demand in 4) is unnecessary, there is no religious reason to do it, only the personal reason.

The fact is that the fundies use the fact that Christians make up a majority to bolster their claims, and the lib Christians around here say that they don't really agree, yet do nothing to knock down the supposedly inflated numbers the fundies represent.

This isn't an issue about your religion, it's about the country as a whole.

Frankly though, I think the golden rule should cover why you should; if you don't want the government telling YOU how to worship, then you should speak up against anyone telling OTHERS how to worship

(though I fully realize this is contradicted by the missionary imperitive, it's worth a shot )

BioBeing

Well, for my example of YEC and creation science - where is the biblical evidence that that is not real? One can interpret the bible, but no-where in the bible does it say that Genesis is just a parable - does it?

So, what *biblical* evidence is there against YEC? I would say none.

As to traditional teaching - well you have the RC Church, but that is a recent "tradition" to be sure.

Does this mean that YEC is thus therefore correct?

If you answer yes, then OK - but you are probably not a liberal Xian.

However, if you answer NO, then are you not morally responsible to stand up against what you believe to be wrong? Regardless of what the bible says...

wildernesse

Well and good. Is there anything in the "liberal Christian value system" that is antithetical to extreme Christian conservatives? Why should liberal Christians want to be distinguished from fundies--if they can be? Why should Christians be concerned with self-interest?

Yahzi