Freethought & Rationalism Archive

spamandham · 04-06-2009, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by show_no_mercy

I wonder if IamJoseph realizes that most modern Jews don't take Genesis literally. It's supposed to be a lesson, not history.

Neither did ancient Jews.

storytime · 04-06-2009, 09:38 PM

IamJoseph said: "The term "rib" is a contrived translation of a mysterious Hebrew word which is not determinable.."

Oh goody, this means I can determine its meaning in context of its enviroment. It can't be a mistery no more.

Ok, so Adam was alone and needed a helper. So a helper was brought to him and as she was taken out of Adams rib, she was surely selected out of his kinsmen. Therefore, the rib is said to be "bone of my bone and flesh of my flesh" - ta-daaa, the answer to what determines the rib is nothing more than tribal kinsmen. Now where did Adam's kinsmen live? Were they also in the garden hidden among the trees of which Adam and Eve hid themselves because they had been exposed[naked] as hypocrits in pretense of being clothed[in righteousness]?

If anybody should question, am I making this stuff up as I go along; might you have a more imaginative answer to the origin of the first couple called The Adams family?

Now the Jewish rabbi's (for there isn't any Gentile rabbi's) can rest in peace because I have determined the rib of Adam as his tribal kinsmen that Eve was taken out of. Not to mention that God had a thing about keeping it all in the family, so to speak.

And, to the origin of Judah[Jews], I think it's Ezekiel that speaks of the Jews[Jerusalem] this way: "thy birth and thy nativity was of the land of Canaan[Canaanites]; thy father was an Amorite and thy mother an Hittite, .." It seems the people of Israel were already divided and the Jews claimed superiority in their Southern Kingdom as they had forced the other ten tribes to move north. The prophet was taking the Jews off their pedestal[supposed royal bloodline] while removing the halo's from their heads. God of course would reunite Judah and Israel in a new covenant as prophesied.

Joseph are you learning anything new?

Sheshbazzar · 04-06-2009, 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by storytime

If anybody should question, am I making this stuff up as I go along;

Hey, Joseph does this all the time, gets a lot of stuff completely wrong, but that doesn't deter him.
I'm a farmer, got my knee high rubber boots, and am used to wading through a lot of stinking shit

IamJoseph · 04-07-2009, 12:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spamandham

Quote:

Originally Posted by show_no_mercy

I wonder if IamJoseph realizes that most modern Jews don't take Genesis literally. It's supposed to be a lesson, not history.

Neither did ancient Jews.

Talking about anciency - I've yet to see anything more reliable than the Hebrew anyplace. It just doesn't get better than this:

Quote:

Apr 6, 2009 23:28 | Updated Apr 7, 2009 9:34

Ancient Hebrew inscription from period of Kings of Judah found in Jerusalem

http://fr.jpost.com/servlet/Satellit...cle%2FShowFull

A fragment of a limestone plaque bearing several letters of ancient Hebrew script from the period of the Kings of Judah nearly 3,000 years ago has been uncovered in an archeological excavation just outside the Old City of Jerusalem, the Israel Antiquities Authority announced Monday.

IamJoseph · 04-07-2009, 12:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spamandham

Quote:

Originally Posted by show_no_mercy

I wonder if IamJoseph realizes that most modern Jews don't take Genesis literally. It's supposed to be a lesson, not history.

Neither did ancient Jews.

Incorrect. There are critical laws in Genesis [ancient?], which the ancient Jews followed fastediously - like Monotheism and circumsizion - now 4000 years and still going strong. :wave:

IamJoseph · 04-07-2009, 12:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by storytime

Therefore, the rib is said to be "bone of my bone and flesh of my flesh" - ta-daaa, the answer to what determines the rib is nothing more than tribal kinsmen. Now where did Adam's kinsmen live?

They must have lived somewhere - considering they introduced the first recording of the river Tigris and Mount Arafat - you think?! And my understanding is that flesh of my flesh and bone of my bones - denotes more than just a rib - sort of aligning more from dust of the earth - as with a microcosm of all earth's elements. Including potassium. ta-daaa!?

IamJoseph · 04-07-2009, 12:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by semiopen

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephen T-B

"IAMJoseph's opinion is that all animals were domesticated before the flood." (semiopen)

But this doesn't answer the question, does it, of agriculture pre-dating hunter-gathering?
If mankind didn't eat meat prior to the Flood, what did Abel do with his sheep? Wear their wool, or eat 'em? He certainly killed them because he offered "the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof" as an offering to his god.
Cain, the story says, was a "tiller of the ground". No mention of anyone going around gathering berries and roots.

My opinion is that this is an error in the bible because the writers didn't understand that human's have to domesticate animals, etc. They are pretty clearly saying that agriculture was before hunting. I hate to bring up language with my friend Joseph around, but God would have had to teach them to talk also.

Despite The Producers not yet being accepted into my canon... Was the language Hebrew? Is there any other?

These questions don't seem to bother people who believe Genesis literally. I asked a rabbi about the sheep and he said to use for wool... makes sense in a weird kind of way.

Despite my short attention span and other bad habits (or maybe because of them), this type of soft science (history, anthropology, archaelology) is more effective in understanding and discussing the bible than hard science like geology, physics and astronomy.

Killing the sheep is an excellent point BTW, didn't notice that before. That seems like a major flaw in the story.

That agriculture predated hunter gathering is a very recent assessment, not a fact, and is not conclusive. But I am not certain of this stat. For sure, it defies logic - specially ToE logic, which says man came from chimps! This factor cannot be posited as a proof of an error in the Hebrew bible, which has yet never been disproven any place: over 70% of its historical stats are scientifically evidenced - a status which is not equatable by any other writings. The fundamental things apply.

IamJoseph · 04-07-2009, 12:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by storytime

And, to the origin of Judah[Jews], I think it's Ezekiel that speaks of the Jews[Jerusalem] this way: "thy birth and thy nativity was of the land of Canaan[Canaanites]; thy father was an Amorite and thy mother an Hittite, .." It seems the people of Israel were already divided and the Jews claimed superiority in their Southern Kingdom as they had forced the other ten tribes to move north. The prophet was taking the Jews off their pedestal[supposed royal bloodline] while removing the halo's from their heads. God of course would reunite Judah and Israel in a new covenant as prophesied.

Joseph are you learning anything new?

An Amorite is anyone who came from the high hill country - aka Jerusalem, an elevated terrain, and correctly prefixed as 'going up to Jerusalem' and 'down' when leaving. How's that for perfect aerial topography mapping well in advance of its space-time?

Thus it is correct to say Israel [as opposed Abraham], which began this nation - was from the hill country. The Hebrew bible is historically pristine and exacting.

razlyubleno · 04-07-2009, 01:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IamJoseph

There are critical laws in Genesis [ancient?], which the ancient Jews followed fastediously - like Monotheism and circumsizion - now 4000 years and still going strong. :wave:

Monotheism? Fastidiously? Naw.

Cf. Judges xi. 23-24.

razly

IamJoseph · 04-07-2009, 03:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by razlyubleno

Quote:

Originally Posted by IamJoseph

There are critical laws in Genesis [ancient?], which the ancient Jews followed fastediously - like Monotheism and circumsizion - now 4000 years and still going strong. :wave:

Monotheism? Fastidiously? Naw.

Cf. Judges xi. 23-24.

razly

You do not like history - like the past 2000 years?

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04-06-2009, 09:38 PM	#282
storytime Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: USA Posts: 2,608	IamJoseph said: "The term "rib" is a contrived translation of a mysterious Hebrew word which is not determinable.." Oh goody, this means I can determine its meaning in context of its enviroment. It can't be a mistery no more. Ok, so Adam was alone and needed a helper. So a helper was brought to him and as she was taken out of Adams rib, she was surely selected out of his kinsmen. Therefore, the rib is said to be "bone of my bone and flesh of my flesh" - ta-daaa, the answer to what determines the rib is nothing more than tribal kinsmen. Now where did Adam's kinsmen live? Were they also in the garden hidden among the trees of which Adam and Eve hid themselves because they had been exposed[naked] as hypocrits in pretense of being clothed[in righteousness]? If anybody should question, am I making this stuff up as I go along; might you have a more imaginative answer to the origin of the first couple called The Adams family? Now the Jewish rabbi's (for there isn't any Gentile rabbi's) can rest in peace because I have determined the rib of Adam as his tribal kinsmen that Eve was taken out of. Not to mention that God had a thing about keeping it all in the family, so to speak. And, to the origin of Judah[Jews], I think it's Ezekiel that speaks of the Jews[Jerusalem] this way: "thy birth and thy nativity was of the land of Canaan[Canaanites]; thy father was an Amorite and thy mother an Hittite, .." It seems the people of Israel were already divided and the Jews claimed superiority in their Southern Kingdom as they had forced the other ten tribes to move north. The prophet was taking the Jews off their pedestal[supposed royal bloodline] while removing the halo's from their heads. God of course would reunite Judah and Israel in a new covenant as prophesied. Joseph are you learning anything new?

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