Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Toto · 07-09-2009, 11:08 AM

Religion is not illegal in China; it is just kept under government control. The historic alliance of missionaries with western imperialists is probably behind the official distrust of religion, especially Christianity.

Falun Gong is a special case. That article notes that Falun Gong became too big too fast, and

Quote:

While five religions are recognized in China, their leadership is under the Party’s control and the groups are fairly obedient, having all experienced persecution in earlier campaigns. Falun Gong practitioners have their own ideological view of the world, one that is markedly different from the Party’s. Marxist materialism is key to the Party’s indoctrination system, and for the Party, material carrots and sticks are, in the post-Mao era, key to controlling the population. Along comes Falun Gong with a theist view of the world, one which believes that material gain in this world is not life’s ultimate goal, that bad deeds incur retribution, and that being virtuous ultimately receives greater rewards. Such a group, the Party realized, would not be easy to control. A group with conviction-based courage to take a principled stance at great personal risk, a group that cannot be bought off, was thus deemed a threat. . .

However, this sounds very much like the Christian world view, and Christians are tolerated as long as they toe the line.

The article goes on to note that Jiang Zemin had a particular obsession with Falun Gong.

Falun Gong sounds like a possible model for Christianity in the second century Roman Empire, except that the Romans did not have the degree of state control that modern China has.

andrewcriddle · 07-09-2009, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ben C Smith

Let me mention briefly what started me thinking about all this. I was reading James A. Haught, 2000 Years of Disbelief (or via: amazon.co.uk), and was struck anew by how many Enlightenment thinkers lost jobs or social opportunities or worse becaue they were slurred as atheists, even if they were deists or Unitarians or they subscribed to other unorthodox but theistic views. This reminded me of the martyrdom of Polycarp, whom the crowd was calling an atheist, even though he apparently believed in the Judeo-Christian God. It occurred to me that the a- in atheist was not being used in either casse to imply rejection of all gods of all kinds, but rather to imply rejection of the god(s) deemed most important to the persecutor(s). Hence this thread.

I think that atheist has in practice meant something broader than the claim that there is no God whatsoever.

Epicureans were generally understood to be atheists despite believing in gods who eternally contemplate their own perfection and have no concern or involvement whatever with anything outside themselves.

Andrew Criddle

GakuseiDon · 07-09-2009, 03:23 PM

Justin Martyr talks about the charge of "atheism" made against Christians in his First Apology:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.co...stapology.html

Quote:

And when Socrates endeavoured, by true reason and examination, to bring these things [that the gods were really demons] to light, and deliver men from the demons, then the demons themselves, by means of men who rejoiced in iniquity, compassed his death, as an atheist and a profane person, on the charge that "he was introducing new divinities;" and in our case they display a similar activity... we not only deny that they who did such things as these are gods, but assert that they are wicked and impious demons, whose actions will not bear comparison with those even of men desirous of virtue. Hence are we called atheists. And we confess that we are atheists, so far as gods of this sort are concerned, but not with respect to the most true God, the Father of righteousness and temperance and the other virtues, who is free from all impurity.

If I'm reading this correctly, Socrates was charged for being an atheist because he was "introducing new divinities". The charge of "atheism" seems to be "lack of respect for the true gods" rather than "lack of belief in any god".

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