Space Chef

What about the grey areas?

Who really deserves to go to hell?

Does Aileen Carol Wuornos deserve to go to hell? She was a

• MURDERER
• LESBIAN/BISEXUAL

Surely, from an Islamic/Christian point of view, she deserves Jahannam/Hell.

But what about the rest of her life?

If (some) humans realize that good and evil isn't just black and white, does Allah/God? Or is he above us, and able to understand things from a higher perspective? How high above us? Through a glass darkly?

Bnonn

It depends who you ask about this. For example, some Christians believe that God does not choose who goes to heaven and who does not based on their actions. His choice is more or less arbitrary (at least from our point of view), and once he's picked someone, he regenerates their spirit so that they are able to believe in him. The idea is that, as sinful creatures, humans are utterly unable to believe in God until he first allows them to.

It doesn't make much sense to me, but it is a convenient way of bypassing the obvious difficulties of weighing opposing actions in a person by rendering the need to do so irrelevant.

Space Chef

And my question is basically "can't God see through black and white? Can't Allah understand the reasons, the motives behind the (maybe sinful) acts of human beings? Does Allah know that someone isn't just a dirty homosexual, but the reasons behind their homosexuality? Why they may commit acts of liwat (unlawful sexual intercourse)? And when He does, how can he damn them?"

PS: In my 'question' you may have gotten the impression that I was saying homosexuality is only caused by abuse or something. I was not impying that. And, I'm a homosexual myself, and I don't hate my homosexuality or think it dirty. So don't call me a dirty self-hating homophobe.

Bnonn

Hehe, thanks for the reply Space Chef.

As I understand it, to have God look at the reasons behind any kind of sinful actions is to ask something that isn't necessary. As I mentioned before, God doesn't choose people based on their actions, so it's not really important why they act as they do.

God, in fact, could not choose any person based on their actions, because their actions are inherently sinful, and God cannot choose something sinful. Instead, he picks certain people, and regenerates their spirit so they are able to believe in him. Thus, those who are saved are pre-ordained, irrelevant of what kind of person they are. A Buddhist monk who devoted his entire life to helping others, but did not accept Christ as his saviour, would not be saved; he would go to hell. However, a man who had been convicted for multiple rape charges may be saved, and turn to the Bible. In God's eyes, all men are equally imperfect, and choosing them based on their actions is impossible. This is the whole concept of Total Depravity in Calvinism.

Note that I am not a Calvinist. I am attempting to represent their belief, and I hope I am doing it accurately. I don't personally believe this; I merely find it interesting, and as far as avoiding the issue of shades of grey goes, it seems to work very well.

Magus55

Everyone deserves hell, because everyone has sinned against God. Aileen Wuornos' murder rampage doesn't go away just because later in life she decided to give to charity.

Space Chef

See, the lack of psychology in religions such as the three Abrahamic faiths almost proves that they're not true.

Magus55

How do you figure? You seem to be saying, even if you go murder people, as long as you do good deeds afterwards, the murder becomes null and void?

Space Chef

Hmm, that's what Christianity seems to say.

No, I'm not saying this. In a case like Aileen Wuornos, it's tough. I'm not talking about some good deeds she did after she was imprisoned. I'm talking about her horrible fucking childhood, and how that contributed to her state, and the sins she committed, possibly including homosexuality.

And Christianity is so irrelevant to this discussion. I've already reasoned that Christianity is bullshit. Not on these forums, but in my private life. I'm not gonna list the reasons as you would just brush them away and consider the matter closed.

Christianity isn't true. Right now, I'm frightened/confused by Islam.

DISSIDENT AGGRESSOR

That's what you say, tell me, what have you done, Magus55, to deserve hell?
What sins have you committed?

Queen of Swords

How has a newborn baby sinned against god? Drinking too much milk, perhaps?

Moreover, if everyone has sinned against god, shouldn't he punish children who die before the age of accountability? I mean, they've sinned too, right (according to you)? So shouldn't they be in the burning hell that they deserve?

But her murder rampage would have gone away if she had just repented at the last minute and accepted christ?