Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Roger Pearse · 10-10-2011, 03:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mountainman

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roger Pearse

May I ask why you're interested in this obscure item?

Certainly. The item was either listed as part of the INDEX of SOURCES in the book From Constantine to Julian: A Source History (or via: amazon.co.uk) By Samuel N. C. Lieu, Dominic Montserrat, or was listed in someone else's comments on this book.

It isn't in the index of sources, nor are there any comments on the item...

But if it's too much trouble to recall, never mind.

Roger Pearse · 07-20-2012, 12:25 PM

Mark Vermes has written to me this evening. He says that he has located his paper copy of the translation that he made of the Halkin Vita, which is very good news. However he needs to discuss the ownership of the item with Dr Samuel Lieu before circulating it, as this is not clear.

sotto voce · 07-21-2012, 03:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roger Pearse

A little more about these saints lives is here.

Palpable nonsense.

Toto · 07-21-2012, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sotto voce

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roger Pearse

A little more about these saints lives is here.

Palpable nonsense.

That link is no longer viewable.

It is to the google books version of Becoming Byzantine: Children and Childhood in Byzantium (Dumbarton Oaks Byzantine Symposia and Colloquia) (or via: amazon.co.uk) with a search for "HG 365n Vita constantine"

sotto voce · 07-21-2012, 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

Quote:

Originally Posted by sotto voce

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roger Pearse

A little more about these saints lives is here.

Palpable nonsense.

That link is no longer viewable.

It is here.

Not that I was necessarily referring to that.

Toto · 07-21-2012, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sotto voce

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

That link is no longer viewable.

It is here.

Not that I was necessarily referring to that.

Please explain your cryptic answer then.

Roger Pearse · 07-21-2012, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

Quote:

Originally Posted by sotto voce

Palpable nonsense.

That link is no longer viewable.

It is to the google books version of Becoming Byzantine: Children and Childhood in Byzantium (Dumbarton Oaks Byzantine Symposia and Colloquia) (or via: amazon.co.uk) with a search for "HG 365n Vita constantine"

The link still works for me in the UK, curiously.

Roger Pearse · 07-21-2012, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roger Pearse

A little more about these saints lives is here.

Thank you Toto for identifying the volume.

Since this preview seems to be inaccessible for some reason to some people, here is a short extract of the relevant bit. The paper is:

Dimiter G. Angelou, Emperors and Patriarchs as Ideal Children and Adolescents: Literary Conventions and Cultural Expectations, In: Arietta Papaconstantinou (ed), Becoming Byzantine: Children and Childhood in Byzantium, Harvard, 2009, p.85-126.

Our interest is in page 91:

Quote:

Saints’ Lives of emperors are exceptional, with only two emperors taken as subjects of hagiographic Vitae: the Nicaean emperor John III Vatatzes (1221-1254), whose fourteenth-century Life (mixing freely the genres of encomium, history, and saint’s Life) features no childhood episodes;19 and the emperor Constantine I (d. 337), Byzantium’s saintly founding father, whose numerous hagiographical Vitae are a valuable source for our investigation. The Vitae of Constantine that refer to the emperor’s childhood were written between the ninth and the fifteenth century. They present illuminating variations. The earliest Lives of Constantine to contain episodes of the emperor’s childhood are the so-called Guidi Vita, Opitz Vita, and Patmos Vita, all composed after the final victory over Iconoclasm.20 The most popular among them, in terms of both manuscript transmission and subsequent influence, is the Guidi Vita, which dates to the ninth century.21 Another hagiographical Life of Constantine, which is important for tracing the evolution of the presentation of Constantine’s childhood, was composed during the eleventh or the twelfth century.22 The late Byzantine period saw the preparation of three new redactions with interesting variations authored by the scholars Constantine Akropolites, Nikephoros Gregoras, and John Chortasmenos.23

20. The three earliest post-iconoclastic Vitae have been published by M. Guidi. "Un Bios di Costantino." Rendiconti della Reale Academia dei Lincei: Classe di scienze morali, storiche e filologiche, Serie Quinta, 16 (1907): 304-40, 637-55 (BHG 364); H. G. Opitz, "Die Vita Constantini des Codex Angelicus 22," Byzantion 9 (1954): 535-93 (BHG 365); F. Halkin. “Une nouvele vie de Constantin dans un legendier de Patmos," AB 77 (1959), 65-107 (BHG 365n). These Vitae have been surveyed in A. Kazhdan, "'Constantin Imaginaire': Byzantine Legends ot the Ninth Century about Constantine the Great," Byzantion 57 (1987): 196-250.

21. On the date of this Vita preserved in more than forty manuscripts, see F. Winkelmann, “Die vormetaphrastischen griechischen hagiographischen Vitae Constantini Magni." in Actes du XIIe Congres International des etudes Byzantines, vol. 2 (Belgrade. 1964), 405-14, esp. 406ff. Kazhdan,
"Constantin Imaginaire." 201.

22 M. I. Gedeon, ... (BHG 363).

23. C. Simonides, The Panegyric of that Holy, Apostolic, and Heaven-Crowned King Constantine the Great, Composed by His [sic] Head Logothetes Constantine Acropoliti (London. 1855) (BHG 368). (The edition is faulty, and its credibility is further compromised by the notoriety of Constantine Simonides as one of the most versatile forgers of the nineteenth century.) Nicephori Gregorae Vita Constantini, ed. P. Leone (Catania. 1994) (BHG 369); Mnemeia Hagiologica, ed.T. Ioannou (Venice, 1884: repr. Leipzig. 1973) 164-229 (BHG 362) On the attribution to John Chortasmenos of the last work, published by loannou as anonymous, see H. Hunger, Johannes Chortasmenos (ca. 1370-ca. 1436/37): Briefe. Gedichte und kleine Schriften (Vienna. 1969). 8. On the rewriting of saints’ Lives in late Byzantium, see A.-M. Talbot. ‘Old Wine in New Bottles: the Re-writing of Saints’ Lives in the Palaiologan Period.” in The Twilight of Byzantium, ed. S. Curcic and D. Mouriki (Princeton, N.J.. 1991), 15-16.

All the best,

Roger Pearse

mountainman · 07-22-2012, 01:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

Quote:

Originally Posted by sotto voce

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

That link is no longer viewable.

It is here.

Not that I was necessarily referring to that.

Please explain your cryptic answer then.

I think its an sv complaint over the use of the term "saints lives".

The links work well - thanks Roger and Toto.

Roger Pearse · 07-24-2012, 08:30 AM

I now have permission to put the Vermes translation of the Halkin life online, when a copy arrives here. I don't know what its copyright status will be, but just getting it online will be a good thing.

All the best,

Roger Pearse

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07-20-2012, 12:25 PM	#12
Roger Pearse Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: N/A Posts: 4,370	Mark Vermes has written to me this evening. He says that he has located his paper copy of the translation that he made of the Halkin Vita, which is very good news. However he needs to discuss the ownership of the item with Dr Samuel Lieu before circulating it, as this is not clear.

07-24-2012, 08:30 AM	#20
Roger Pearse Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: N/A Posts: 4,370	I now have permission to put the Vermes translation of the Halkin life online, when a copy arrives here. I don't know what its copyright status will be, but just getting it online will be a good thing. All the best, Roger Pearse

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