Freethought & Rationalism Archive

s2art · 08-06-2007, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Merlin

0=(1+(-1))

exactly.

James T · 08-06-2007, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sarpedon

The idea that there was nothing before the creation of the Universe is a religious idea, not a scientific one. We don't have to explain how something can come from nothing any more than we have to explain how Jesus fed 5,000 people with a basketful of food. Until the religious people prove that at one point something came from nothing, I see no reason to wonder how this could be.

Yet I have many people in S&S who will tell me that time did not exist before the universe, even to say "before" when talking about the universe is wrong to these people. This seems closely equivalent to nothing to me.

This puts me in the position of knowing one example but denying others, I think there is a reasonable justification for this.

Oxymoron · 08-06-2007, 01:23 PM

Whilst I think I understand what you mean by 0=-1+1, it's not quite correct. "0" is a reference point, the only significance of which is that it is the integer where the sign changes. Otherwise, it's hard to see what '-1' could signify - a negative universe? :huh: Even anti-matter still has positive mass.

Sarpedon is spot-on. Science doesn't say "something from nothing". At t=0 there's a singularity beyond which we can't say anything very much. Space and time were "created" at that point, but what the precursors were is, to date, unknowable.

Merlin · 08-06-2007, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oxymoron

Whilst I think I understand what you mean by 0=-1+1, it's not quite correct. "0" is a reference point, the only significance of which is that it is the integer where the sign changes. Otherwise, it's hard to see what '-1' could signify - a negative universe? :huh: Even anti-matter still has positive mass.

Sarpedon is spot-on. Science doesn't say "something from nothing". At t=0 there's a singularity beyond which we can't say anything very much. Space and time were "created" at that point, but what the precursors were is, to date, unknowable.

Anti-matter is more characterised as 1 *(1/1) or 2* 1/2 etc.

Yes 1+(-1) does imply a negative universe, in the same way an anti-matter one is implied.
But where is it?

s2art · 08-06-2007, 02:09 PM

Perhaps a better way to describe it is;

A = A

and then go on to expand it as you will.

A + 1 = A +1

cos (A) = cos (A)

and any number of variations that equate the left side with the right side of the equation. No 'positive' or 'negative' side is required.

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08-06-2007, 01:23 PM	#23
Oxymoron Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: http://10.0.0.2/ Posts: 6,623	Whilst I think I understand what you mean by 0=-1+1, it's not quite correct. "0" is a reference point, the only significance of which is that it is the integer where the sign changes. Otherwise, it's hard to see what '-1' could signify - a negative universe? :huh: Even anti-matter still has positive mass. Sarpedon is spot-on. Science doesn't say "something from nothing". At t=0 there's a singularity beyond which we can't say anything very much. Space and time were "created" at that point, but what the precursors were is, to date, unknowable.

08-06-2007, 02:09 PM	#25
s2art Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: UK Posts: 29	Perhaps a better way to describe it is; A = A and then go on to expand it as you will. A + 1 = A +1 cos (A) = cos (A) and any number of variations that equate the left side with the right side of the equation. No 'positive' or 'negative' side is required.

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