aa5874

The question does not apply to things that are known to exist but are missing.

And if in some situations, absence of evidence is conclusive evidence for absence, then it can be said that the statement "absence of evidence is not evidence for absence is not true in those situations.

And all things not known to exist have no evidence. Only when there is evidence, existence is confirmed.

Those who make claims of historicity must provide the evidence for their claims, failure to prove historicity then the counter claim is valid.

If a person claims Jesus and Paul existed whether as gods or men, then they MUST provide the evidence, failure to do so, then the default position, Jesus and Paul did not exist, is true and cannot be contradicted.

Doug Shaver

When you beg the question, you can either apply it or not apply it any way you want to.

patcleaver

You are saying that knowledge and facts based on evidence is equivalent to speculation and BS that somebody invented. What an amazingly ignorant comment.

No it is not true that BS is to be given the same position as established facts. The default position is that statements that are not supported by reasonable evidence are not true.

It is simply not true that Jesus ever existed. It is not true that Jesus is historical. It is not reasonable to claim that something is true when you have no reasonable evidence that it is true.

A myth is just a religious story for which there is no adequate evidence. Whenever anyone calls any ancient religious story a myth, all they can possibly mean is that there is insufficient evidence that its true. We have no reasonable evidence that Zeus did not exist, or that Heracles did not exist, or that Achilles did not exist. When we call Heracles a myth all we mean is that there is insufficient evidence to establish that the story of Heracles is true.

We do not need any evidence at all to establish that Zeus and Heracles and Achilles and Jesus are myths. All we have to show is that the evidence for their existence is insufficient.

Your claim, that we require evidence to declare that Jesus was a myth is ludicrous. If we can not call Jesus a myth, then we can not call Zeus or Heracles or Achilles myths for exactly the same reasons.

aa5874

It is completely false to claim I ignore anything about the ancients. Just show me where I have done such a thing.

My claim is based on no evidence, absence of evidence.

This is true and cannot ever be contradicted, No evidence is the evidence for nothing.

As of today, there is no credible evidence for the son of the God of the Jews called Jesus and the man he blinded called Paul.

I asked you where can I find credible evidence for Jesus and Paul? It is a simple question.

Jesus and Paul are described in the NT and by the Church writers, they claim that their description and events about Paul and Jesus are true.

They described Jesus as the Son of the God of the Jews, born of a virgin according to prophecy, was transfigured, crucified, died, resurrected and ascended through the clouds witnessed in some instances by his mother and his disciples.

They describled Paul of Tarsus as the man who was blinded by a bright light from Jesus in heaven and that Jesus revealed many things to Paul after Jesus was in heaven and that he wrote letters to seven Churches, Timothy, Titus and Philemon.

Where can I find credible evidence of Jesus and Paul? This a question not an argument.

It cannot be the wrong approach to ask for evidence, but on the other hand it is the wrong approach to assume that there is evidence for Jesus and Paul when they are described in such incredible and implausible manner.

MarkA

The proliferation of drugs itself cannot be evidence for the existence of drug dealers. Other explanations maybe advanced and given credence. For example, the reason drugs are widespread could be because individuals manufacture them for their own consumption.

In any event, your analogy is not convincing since evidence of theexistence of drug dealers is as prolific as you say the drugs are. Publicly available evidence in the form of media reports, court documents or police and other law enforcement agency reports. Documentary evidence that would support the existence of drug dealers despite the unlikely circumstance of you being unable to find even a single individual who has even indirect evidence of their existence.

Where is the supporting evidence for the biblical stories?

aa5874

In addition we are not dealing with drugs or drug dealers, right now.

We are looking for Jesus and Paul. They are described in the NT and by the Church writers.

In the example, there are no drug dealers but drugs all over the place, but in the case of Jesus and Paul it is far worse, neither Jesus, Paul and any proliferation of physical effects or evidence can be found anywhere in the 1st century.

Absence of evidence is the evidence for nothing, this statement cannot be contradicted.

spamandham

Wow. Oddly, I was actually agreeing with you.

Bizarre.

spamandham

Josephus claimed it was true that Chariots were seen flying around in the sky. Therefor, we must discard everything Josephus wrote.

Do you agree with that approach?

Elijah

Moving from demanding “evidence” to “credible evidence” where you decide what is credible with a figure like Jesus is major goalpost movement.

Again, if you have a complete sample and have no evidence of what you are looking for then it is probably correct to say that it is absent but if you don’t have a complete sample; especially if you are speaking of the events in the past, which you have almost no way at all of sampling to see if the evidence exists or not, then you don’t have enough data to make the claim you are making.

It’s better to try to prove your point instead of trying to disqualify the other person’s side by disregarding all evidence unless it comes from whatever you have in mind for an unbiased unalterable source in regards to a peasant preacher who got killed. Probability and the tradition are evidence for me unless something is presented to counter that.
You don’t need evidence of the existence of a mythological character but you do need to have evidence that what we are reading is meant to be considered a myth and not a messiah claimant’s account that’s been glamorized to recruit believers. Begging the question fallacy.

aa5874

Now, where can I find credible evidence that chariots can fly in the sky?

Josephus did not write Wars of the Jews, Antiquities of the Jews and his autobiography to deal with "flying chariots", he simply wrote about the rumors and anecdotes that were being told at that time.

It is absurd to use an anecdote reported by others to judge the credibility of Josephus, andto make it equivalvent to the entire nt and writings about Jesus.