stuart shepherd

No problem...... everything's OK.

Stu

stuart shepherd

Why Didn’t Jesus Do Something?

If Jesus is God, as many Christians believe that he is, why didn’t he look into the future when he was on earth, and take action to fix the problems that arose because of Christianity, and his followers, after he went to Heaven.

For example, Jesus’ followers argued about the nature of God. Some said God was a singularity, some said God was a Trinity, they argued and they killed each other. But the problem is that the Bible is ambiguous about the nature of God. Jesus could have foreseen this deadly dispute and had the Bible writers explain the nature of God in absolutely clear certain terms.

Jesus could have foreseen the Catholic Protestant disputes, with its wars and millions dying and had the Bible written so the Catholic Protestant differences would not have come about. But Jesus did nothing.

What about the murdering of Jews, Heretics, and Homosexuals? Slavery? Suppression of Science? Book burning? Jesus could have had the Bible written to preclude his followers from taking slaves and murdering in his name. But Jesus did nothing.

What about Atheists, who require proof in order to believe? Why didn’t Jesus provide indisputable proof?

Billions of people believe that Jesus is God and that he loves mankind.
But when he could have acted to benefit man he failed.
That’s why I think Jesus is a fraud. His story is just fiction.
And Jesus did not rise from the dead.
Jesus’ inaction just proves that if he ever was, he died, and we never heard from him again.

Stuart Shepherd
BTW Did you read post #117 on this thread?

FireBrandon

I just discovered a highly probable late interpolation in the gospel of Matthew. It's in Matthew 28:11-15 and concerns the supposed Jewish bribery of the Roman guards to say that the disciples stole the body. This major piece of evidence is not mentioned anywhere in the other gospels or the NT, which is odd seeing as Paul and the other disciples would have jumped on it like a hungry cat on a mouse as evidence for the resurrection/empty tomb.

Matthew 28:10 reads, "Then Jesus said to them 'Do not be afraid; go and tell my brothers to go to Galilee; there they will see me."

Matthew 28:16 reads, "Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go."

If the disciples were immediately preaching that Christ was risen, the Jews would have immediately created this bribery excuse and Mark (the earliest gospel) would have recorded it.

The evidence stacks against this actually having been written by Matthew and against the disciples having actually preached the empty tomb/resurrection in Jerusalem as Acts records. In fact, Matthew and Mark show them going to Galilee. Only Luke in his gospel and in Acts records them staying in Jerusalem and "receiving power from on high" and the whole Joel 2/acts 2 outpouring of the Spirit. I think Luke tended towards the Montanist tradition and that is reflected in his writings. He clearly changes the story to fit his purposes.

Do ya'll agree or disagree? Why or why not?

stuart shepherd

Dear FireBrandon
You make some excellent points.
There are several incidents in the Gospel according to matthew, that are not in any other gospel. IMO they are later fabrications put there to strenghten the "empty tomb" argument, which is very thin and all the Apologists really have as evidence.

Stuart Shepherd

Steven Carr

PFC talks about the appearances of Jesus.

What in the text leads him to believe the appearances had any more solidity than the recent appearances of Jesus on a slice of toast?

stuart shepherd

Did Jesus measure up to the standard of the Hebrew Scriptures?

Dr James D. Tabor, in his book, “”Restoring Abrahamic Faith””, states…..

“”There are ten basic texts in the Hebrew Prophets, which deal directly and specifically with this figure of the future Davidic King or Messiah.””

Dr Tabor, then quotes his list of ten “jewels” and then makes a very startling assessment of Jesus concerning these Scriptures.

Let’s look at the Scriptures and Dr Tabor’s assessment follows the Scriptures.

Isaiah 9:6-7 (King James Version)
6For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
7Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.

Isaiah 11:1-12 (King James Version)
1And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots:
2And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD;
3And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the LORD: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears:
4But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth: with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.
5And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins.
6The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.
7And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.
8And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den.
9They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.
10And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious.
11And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea.
12And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.

Isaiah 16:5 (King James Version)
5And in mercy shall the throne be established: and he shall sit upon it in truth in the tabernacle of David, judging, and seeking judgment, and hasting righteousness.


Jeremiah 23:5-6 (King James Version)
5Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.
6In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.


Zechariah 3:8-10 (King James Version)
8Hear now, O Joshua the high priest, thou, and thy fellows that sit before thee: for they are men wondered at: for, behold, I will bring forth my servant the BRANCH.
9For behold the stone that I have laid before Joshua; upon one stone shall be seven eyes: behold, I will engrave the graving thereof, saith the LORD of hosts, and I will remove the iniquity of that land in one day.
10In that day, saith the LORD of hosts, shall ye call every man his neighbour under the vine and under the fig tree.


Zechariah 6:12-13 (King James Version)
12And speak unto him, saying, Thus speaketh the LORD of hosts, saying, Behold the man whose name is The BRANCH; and he shall grow up out of his place, and he shall build the temple of the LORD:
13Even he shall build the temple of the LORD; and he shall bear the glory, and shall sit and rule upon his throne; and he shall be a priest upon his throne: and the counsel of peace shall be between them both.


Psalm 110:1-5 (King James Version)
1The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.
2The LORD shall send the rod of thy strength out of Zion: rule thou in the midst of thine enemies.
3Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth.
4The LORD hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek.
5The Lord at thy right hand shall strike through kings in the day of his wrath.


Zechariah 9:9-10 (King James Version)
9Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass.
10And I will cut off the chariot from Ephraim, and the horse from Jerusalem, and the battle bow shall be cut off: and he shall speak peace unto the heathen: and his dominion shall be from sea even to sea, and from the river even to the ends of the earth.

Amos 9:11-12 (King James Version)
11In that day will I raise up the tabernacle of David that is fallen, and close up the breaches thereof; and I will raise up his ruins, and I will build it as in the days of old:
12That they may possess the remnant of Edom, and of all the heathen, which are called by my name, saith the LORD that doeth this.

Micah 5:2-4 (King James Version)
2But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.
3Therefore will he give them up, until the time that she which travaileth hath brought forth: then the remnant of his brethren shall return unto the children of Israel.
4And he shall stand and feed in the strength of the LORD, in the majesty of the name of the LORD his God; and they shall abide: for now shall he be great unto the ends of the earth.

Dr Tabor said…….
“”Finally, despite all the anti-Jewish rhetoric and polemic from the Christians regarding Jesus fulfilling the prophets it is worth noting that he [Jesus] did not fulfill a single one of these messianic passages.”

If Jesus did not even measure up to be the Messiah, in fact he was a total failure, how is it possible that he could have risen from the dead? :huh:

Stuart Shepherd

stuart shepherd

Sometimes I see faces in my oatmeal in the morning.
It could be Jesus...but how would I know what he looks like?
I use blueberries to give the faces blue eyes.

Delusions are very common.
Some of my relatives watch football games on TV looking to see my dead uncle Ed in the stands. [see post #63 on page 3 of this thread if you don't know about my uncle Ed]

Stuart Shepherd

spamandham

That's proof that Papa Smurf is sending you a message. :Cheeky:

Allied35

Excuse me but am I missing something here?
In order to prove the historicity of the resurrection wouldn't it be necessary for punkforchrist to present evidence that Jesus actually existed?
As far as I know, no such evidence exists so the resurrection must also be presumed a myth.

Right?

FireBrandon

Great point!!! I can see how Anti-Semitism would result from Christians bending the texts to make Jesus fit and rejecting the Jews because of their refusal to accept Jesus of Nazareth as the Messiah.

Did you read the whole book? Does he base the whole book on just those 10 prophecies or also on all the other places where Christians have made Jesus fit the OT (ie. Hos. 11:1 "Out of Egypt I called my son") which is actually referring to Israel and the Exodus, but is taken in Matt. 2 to be Jesus coming up from Egypt.

Brandon