Freethought & Rationalism Archive

iLoveKnowledge · 04-30-2007, 04:02 PM

Do post when they return. I'd like to know how they react before launching my own little effort.

vikingrob · 04-30-2007, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DCC

Edited to add: JWs don't believe in a soul, either.

Actually, according to the Wikipedia article on JW beliefs, they believe souls to be mortal. (BL, for example, argued that souls don't exist.)

DCC · 04-30-2007, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vikingrob

Actually, according to the Wikipedia article on JW beliefs, they believe souls to be mortal. (BL, for example, argued that souls don't exist.)

I've never talked to a JW who believed in any kind of soul separate from the body in any way. Including Elders. They put a big emphasis on physical resurrection and on ghosts not being human spirits because of this.

From the Horse's (Watch Tower Society's) mouth:

"That spirit can be compared to the electric current that activates a machine or an appliance and enables it to perform its function. Just as the current never takes on the features of the equipment it activates, the life-force does not take on any of the characteristics of the creatures it animates. It has no personality and no thinking ability."

&

"The ancient Greek philosophers Socrates and Plato held that a soul inside a person survives death and never dies. What does the Bible teach about the soul? Adam "came to be a living soul," says Genesis 2:7. He did not receive a soul; he was a soul—a whole person."

Source: http://watchtower.org/e/20020715/article_02.htm

IonMic · 05-01-2007, 03:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucretius

I have it appears sadly been "blacklisted " by the local JW's (and the Mormons too I wonder if they share info

)
In fact the last time they were in the area I spotted them and was looking forward to a "little chat" when two of them started down my drive only to be really disappointed when a middle aged man with them actually ran after them and physically pulled the two younger ones away.
I did find that being polite with them was a good start puts them at thier ease so you can then really go for the jugular later on.
As others have said the best ways to "argue" with them are bringing up the whole only 144,000 people going to Heaven business ,the list of dates they formerly believed that the world was going to end and my favourite the blood transfusion thing for the latter point out that the only prohibition on blood in the Bible comes in the middle of a passage regarding "kosher" foods and obviously relates to eating foods such as black pudding (blood sausage, Blutwurst whatever you want to call it )and ask them to explain why this has come to be interpreted as being against medical (human)blood transfusion, which Jews fully accept is NOT meant by these passages.

Trust me, JW's and Mormons do not share any info!

The focus for Mormon missionaries has moved off Door knocking although this does still make up part of their time. But it just means you wont get knocked on by the mormons as often now.

IonMic · 05-01-2007, 03:29 AM

I just remembered another good one. Ask them if they have a bible handy as you want to share a scripture with them....

When they give you their 'bible' attempt to open it to John 5:4 (its not there!) then look puzzled flick back to the cover look at it, it will say "The New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures" or "Holy Scriptures" then ask them why they gave you this strange book that has passages missing instead of a proper bible.

Gawen · 05-01-2007, 05:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ubercat

I really appreciate all these great suggestions. I wonder if/ when they'll be back? My guess is on the weekend.

-Ubercat

Is there any way you can take video?

Lucretius · 05-01-2007, 06:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IonMic

Trust me, JW's and Mormons do not share any info!

The focus for Mormon missionaries has moved off Door knocking although this does still make up part of their time. But it just means you wont get knocked on by the mormons as often now.

Yes I know that they don't communicate I was trying (and possibly failing ) to be funny
Funnily enough my mother is doing our family tree and not only is using the LDS archives and stuff but has actually found out that some distant relative of ours is currently quite high up in the LDS we have met him here in the UK a couple of times (nice guy and has never tried to "convert us")and since then the Mormons seem to have left us alone ,may just be coincidence I admit but the timing was about right

drewjmore · 05-01-2007, 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IonMic

...attempt to open it to John 5:4 (its not there!) ...

Hey, the NIV has that passage missing, as well. Wierd.

From the Young's literal translation of the LXX:

Quote:

4 for a messenger at a set time was going down in the pool, and was troubling the water, the first then having gone in after the troubling of the water, became whole of whatever sickness he was held.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...4;&version=15;

Hubble head · 05-01-2007, 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IonMic

If you want blacklisted procure yourself a Book of Mormon. Most secondhand book stores have them eradily available.

Then when the JW's turn up tell them you have a message to share with them and pull out the book of mormon and offer it to them and watch them run.

Plus you get the added bonus of being blacklisted from having that house proselyted by them for as long as you live there!

Or for real fireworks invite the mormon missionaries around at the same time and ask them to explain why the other is false.

This might make a great clip for a documentary.

"Hello, Mormons, i'm thinking of joining and need a little more info before I decide which religion is best for me. can you come over at 7 on wed?

Then call the JW, same time, same bat place and set up hidden cameras. Its inside your own home so its all legal. :devil3:

BigJim · 05-01-2007, 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drewjmore

Hey, the NIV has that passage missing, as well. Wierd.

From the Young's literal translation of the LXX:

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...4;&version=15;

If you bring up all of John 5, there's a footnote after the word paralzyed in 5:3.

John 5:3 Some less important manuscripts "...paralyzed—and they waited for the moving of the waters. 4 From time to time an angel of the Lord would come down and stir up the waters. The first one into the pool after each such disturbance would be cured of whatever disease he had."

Strange that that would be left out. It adds context to verse 7:
"7"Sir," the invalid replied, "I have no one to help me into the pool when the water is stirred. While I am trying to get in, someone else goes down ahead of me.""

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04-30-2007, 04:02 PM	#31
iLoveKnowledge Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Addicted to Nox Arcana and Amethystium Posts: 2,675	Do post when they return. I'd like to know how they react before launching my own little effort.

05-01-2007, 03:29 AM	#35
IonMic Regular Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Invercargill, New Zealand Posts: 329	I just remembered another good one. Ask them if they have a bible handy as you want to share a scripture with them.... When they give you their 'bible' attempt to open it to John 5:4 (its not there!) then look puzzled flick back to the cover look at it, it will say "The New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures" or "Holy Scriptures" then ask them why they gave you this strange book that has passages missing instead of a proper bible.

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