Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Soul Invictus · 01-20-2006, 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonCapitan2002

How many verses make that indication, though?

Jn.8:40 is pretty close too. It states:

Quote:

But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God.

Here Jesus identifies himself as a man...and not as God.

Even so, if there are verses that counters the claims of that verse and declares the opposite, then it only impairs the plea for credibility of the book by having contradictory claims within it.

MonCapitan2002 · 01-20-2006, 10:23 PM

I see. It also makes the Bible incoherent as well. Are the claims consistent within each book of the Gospels or are they too inconsistent within themselves?

Soul Invictus · 01-20-2006, 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonCapitan2002

Are the claims consistent within each book of the Gospels or are they too inconsistent within themselves?

Are you asking if the Gospels have inconsistent/consistent claims on who Jesus is?

MonCapitan2002 · 01-20-2006, 10:27 PM

No. I am aware that there are inconsistencies between various books of the Gosples. What I am asking is if there are inconsistencies within individual Gospel accounts as opposed to inconsistencies between different Gospel accounts.

Soul Invictus · 01-20-2006, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonCapitan2002

No. I am aware that there are inconsistencies between various books of the Gosples. What I am asking is if there are inconsistencies within individual Gospel accounts as opposed to inconsistencies between different Gospel accounts.

Yes. The first one that comes to mind is Dan Barker's work entitled "Leave No Stone Unturned"

MonCapitan2002 · 01-20-2006, 10:48 PM

I see. I think I shall read that article.

MonCapitan2002 · 01-20-2006, 10:59 PM

That article makes some very good points.

StarCross · 01-21-2006, 05:16 AM

Hello folks,

Since some people are complaining that this poll is inadaquate and does not provide enough options, I have started a new thread and poll here:
http://www.iidb.org/vbb/showthread.php?t=151591

Thanks
StarCross

Soul Invictus · 01-21-2006, 06:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StarCross

Hello folks,

Since some people are complaining that this poll is inadaquate and does not provide enough options, I have started a new thread and poll here:
http://www.iidb.org/vbb/showthread.php?t=151591

Thanks
StarCross

Starcross, please see my responses. Let me know what you think.

StarCross · 01-21-2006, 06:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soul Invictus

Howdy StarCross,

Hello Soul.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soul Invictus

No problem. One scripture that comes to mind is 1 Tim.2:5

"For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus."

I'm not readily sure of the apologetics for this one (which I'm sure are some) but this verse does a few things.

1) It establishes that there is one God
2) It makes a distinction that God is a separate type of entity from a man (by virtue of a connecting mediator)
3) Jesus is a man

Thanks for the reply. I use the same verse of scripture to show that Jesus is indeed a separate type of entity as you put it. There is only one God and Jesus is not him. Otherwise, who is the mediator of that verse?

Jesus is not a mere human either. Keep in mind that Paul is describing the risen Lord in heaven and not a flesh and blood human. Scripture does not describe Jesus as a mere mortal anywhere but it does say the following:

Quote:

but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. For this reason also, God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, (Philippians 2:7-9 (NASB))

Paul is saying that Jesus APPEARED to be human, not that he WAS human. Therefore, my conclusion is that Jesus is a unique being. He was not human and he was not God. My assertion is that answer #4 is the correct interpretation of scripture concerning Christ's identity and nature.

Thanks
StarCross

View Poll Results: The Bible identifies Jesus as?
God	0	0%
man	13	46.43%
both God and man	12	42.86%
neither God or man but something in between	3	10.71%
Voters: 28. You may not vote on this poll

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01-20-2006, 10:23 PM	#22
MonCapitan2002 Contributor Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: --- Posts: 10,496	I see. It also makes the Bible incoherent as well. Are the claims consistent within each book of the Gospels or are they too inconsistent within themselves?

01-20-2006, 10:27 PM	#24
MonCapitan2002 Contributor Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: --- Posts: 10,496	No. I am aware that there are inconsistencies between various books of the Gosples. What I am asking is if there are inconsistencies within individual Gospel accounts as opposed to inconsistencies between different Gospel accounts.

01-20-2006, 10:48 PM	#26
MonCapitan2002 Contributor Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: --- Posts: 10,496	I see. I think I shall read that article.

01-20-2006, 10:59 PM	#27
MonCapitan2002 Contributor Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: --- Posts: 10,496	That article makes some very good points.

01-21-2006, 05:16 AM	#28
StarCross Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Central PA, USA Posts: 25	Hello folks, Since some people are complaining that this poll is inadaquate and does not provide enough options, I have started a new thread and poll here: http://www.iidb.org/vbb/showthread.php?t=151591 Thanks StarCross

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