Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Joan of Bark · 10-21-2009, 06:31 AM

I hope he illustrates The Flood with babies floating face down in the water. That should get some people thinking.

Toto · 10-22-2009, 12:12 PM

Quote:

"I don't think 'Genesis' is a good place to look for spiritual guidance or moral guidance," he continues. "I don't believe it's the word of God.

"At the same time," he continues, "I think the stories are very powerful. I'm not out to ridicule them or belittle them."

Although done in the same, unmistakable style that Crumb has brought to such comic books as Zap, Weirdo and Dirty Laundry, "Genesis" is also surprisingly respectful, as well as faithfully loyal to the Bible's original text.

....

Not an atheist like his father, Crumb describes himself as a Gnostic, a member of that ancient movement searching for spiritual enlightenment.

show_no_mercy · 10-22-2009, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

surprising background

Quote:

Not an atheist like his father, Crumb describes himself as a Gnostic, a member of that ancient movement searching for spiritual enlightenment.

Why don't these people just become Buddhists? At least there's a continuous line of tradition - and it's probably just as old as "Judaism" (who knows what "Judaism" was before the exile).

Toto · 10-22-2009, 01:01 PM

Buddhists actually have a practice - mediation, dietary restrictions, etc. If you call yourself a gnostic, there's nobody to tell you what you have to do.

Toto · 10-25-2009, 01:31 AM

review by an atheist

Quote:

Reading it in comics form made it easier for me to set aside, just for a moment, the relentless hammering on the text that I typically engage in when I read the Bible: the theological debates, the treasure hunt for inaccuracies and inconsistencies, the incessant "How did this pissy, jealous, temperamental warrior god get shoehorned into the All-Knowing All-Powerful All-Good ideal again?" bafflement. It made it easier to set all that aside... and just read it as a story. A story about some very human, very fallible characters: strong and interesting, but not moral paragons by any stretch of the imagination... and not really intended to be.

Including the God character. Who, in many ways, is the most human and the most fallible of them all.

aether · 10-25-2009, 02:31 AM

Now if he would just finish up the rest of the bible, I might finally be able to get through it.

Toto · 10-26-2009, 10:49 AM

Why is God portrayed as an old man with a white beard?

Quote:

How Did the Bearded Old Man Become the Default Image of God?

Peter Pearson Answers

As far as I’m aware, the image of God as an old man crept in during the Middle Ages. So this image of God with a flowing white beard has been around for at least a thousand years. It’s called “the Lord Sabboth” or “the Ancient of Days,” and it is completely the invention of somebody’s imagination because God (who we refer to as the Father) has no body as far as we know.

...

Father Peter Pearson is an iconographer, liturgical artist, and the author of the new book Another Brush With God (or via: amazon.co.uk).

DCHindley · 10-26-2009, 07:37 PM

It all stems from Daniel.

—Biblical Data:

A poetical epithet for God. It is an incorrect rendering of the Aramaic 'attiḳ yomin (Dan. vii. 9 = 7:9) or 'attiḳ yomaya (ib. vii. 13, 22 = Dan 7:13, 22), which should be translated "an aged one," "the aged one" (compare Dalman, "Die Worte Jesu," i. 194). "Ancient of Days" is used either to emphasize the contrast between the true God and the idols, the new gods (Judges, v. 8 = 5:8; Deut. xxxii. 17 = 32:17), or merely to express the venerable character of the being whose name the author hesitates to mention. From the above-cited passage in Daniel is borrowed the expression "re'esha mawa'el" (head of days) in the Book of Enoch xlvi. 1 (46:1ff), and the description of the Son of Man in Rev. i. 14 (1:14).
C. L.

—In Rabbinical Literature:

This name of God, used only in Dan. vii. 9, 13, 22 (7:9, 13 & 22), in which He is described as having "the hair of his head [white] like pure wool," denotes the One who is from of old; that is, old compared with all created things, that are of yesterday. As stated by Pseudo-Saadia and other Jewish commentators, God is often depicted by the rabbis as the venerable sage (Zaḳen) invested with judicial authority, whose sternness is tempered by mildness of judgment. To the devotees of mystic lore, within whose circle the Book of Daniel and the entire apocalyptic literature originated, the name naturally suggested itself as an attribute of majesty combined with tenderness, since they regarded the title "Zaḳen" (the aged one) to mean the one invested with the highest dignity. Accordingly "Ancient of Days" remained with these a favorite name of God (Pes.119a, B. B. 91b = citations from the Talmud). It became, moreover, the standing name for God in the oldest portions of the Zohar, the (Book of Mystic Lore), in which the white, wool-like hair of the head became a prominent feature of the anthropomorphism of the Cabala. The following rational explanation of this anthropomorphic description of the Deity is given in Mek., Beshallaḥ Shirah (Ex. xv. 3), and Ḥag. 13a: "When represented as a warrior triumphant in battle, God appears as a fiery young hero; and in an assembly of the wise who seek truth and justice, He is depicted as a venerable sage, calm and majestic."

Read more: http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/vi...#ixzz0V6CK7ZUn

As you can see, the image of God as a man with grey hair - signifying great age and thus wisdom - comes from Daniel and then was expanded in the late Roman (via Talmud and midrash) and the middle ages (via Zohar).

DCH

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

Why is God portrayed as an old man with a white beard?

Quote:

How Did the Bearded Old Man Become the Default Image of God?

Peter Pearson Answers

As far as I’m aware, the image of God as an old man crept in during the Middle Ages. So this image of God with a flowing white beard has been around for at least a thousand years. It’s called “the Lord Sabboth” or “the Ancient of Days,” and it is completely the invention of somebody’s imagination because God (who we refer to as the Father) has no body as far as we know.

...

Father Peter Pearson is an iconographer, liturgical artist, and the author of the new book Another Brush With God (or via: amazon.co.uk).

Joan of Bark · 10-26-2009, 09:21 PM

It should portray the Genesis God as a bored couch potato ...

Geez, I need some entertainment. I think I'll create a couple of hungry sentient bipeds, put them in a garden with a wiley animal, tell 'em to eat everything but the fruit of one tree, then see what happens. I'll call it ... Survivor: Eden. "

Toto · 10-29-2009, 11:40 AM

LA Times review provides more background.

Quote:

Before he started making any drawings for his Genesis project, Crumb said, "I did a lot of detective work." In addition to the King James Version of the Bible, he consulted "The Five Books of Moses (or via: amazon.co.uk)", Robert Alter's highly praised 2004 translation of the Pentateuch. He embarked on a close reading of Genesis and found as many ambiguities and contradictions as revealed truths.

...

Crumb also was given a huge stock of visual source material by a friend, who made freeze-fame images from Hollywood biblical epics. Not coincidentally perhaps, Crumb's rendering of God looks a lot like Charlton Heston's Moses in "The Ten Commandments." (Crumb told one interviewer that the figure was influenced by Crumb's own father, an authoritarian former Marine Corps sergeant.)

One of his discoveries in doing the project, Crumb said, was that Genesis can be read as a sort of Bronze Age primer on male-female relations. He credits Savina Teubal's 1984 book "Sarah the Priestess (or via: amazon.co.uk)" with helping him grasp the ancient matriarchal storytelling and spiritual traditions that overlap with the patriarchal leanings of Genesis.

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

10-21-2009, 06:31 AM	#11
Joan of Bark Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Pua, in northern Thailand Posts: 2,823	I hope he illustrates The Flood with babies floating face down in the water. That should get some people thinking.

10-22-2009, 01:01 PM	#14
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	Buddhists actually have a practice - mediation, dietary restrictions, etc. If you call yourself a gnostic, there's nobody to tell you what you have to do.

10-25-2009, 02:31 AM	#16
aether Regular Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Detroit Posts: 362	Now if he would just finish up the rest of the bible, I might finally be able to get through it.

10-26-2009, 09:21 PM	#19
Joan of Bark Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Pua, in northern Thailand Posts: 2,823	It should portray the Genesis God as a bored couch potato ... Geez, I need some entertainment. I think I'll create a couple of hungry sentient bipeds, put them in a garden with a wiley animal, tell 'em to eat everything but the fruit of one tree, then see what happens. I'll call it ... Survivor: Eden. "

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.