DropOut

...that words have definitions which they don't actually have.
"Secular" for example,is defined by this forum as "non-theistic".
However,if you open a dictionary the true definition is very different.
(Believe it or not, there are actually non-religious theists.)

I like to play pretend too.
Let's say for the purpose of this thread,that "God" is defined as everything.
Yes, this makes valid such statements as,"I gotta take a huge God.",
and let's not forget the classic retort,
"Don't forget to wipe your God.".
(My apologies to anyone offended.)
I guess this exercise tests the validity of language and human expression.
My "secular" viewpoint is based on the definition provided by Webster's Ninth New Collegiate Dictionary.(...as if that somehow lends to it's credibility.)
My question?
Why would my non-religious belief in God exclude me from secularism?

Enai

So, DropOut, what's your point? At least I fail to detect one.

Enai

NeoApostate

If I understood correctly, I think DropOut is asking if someone who believes in pantheism can still be considered secular.

DropOut

Enai,
I'm pointless or at least without a point that can be detected by anyone other than myself.

NeoApostate,
I'd like the word "pantheism" alot more if it didn't exclude those who are without "doctrines" of "worship" or religion.

ashe

Who says you are holding a nonreligious belief?

I contend that you are, in fact, holding a 'religious' belief because you are augmenting simple 'existence' with attributes of God that have no basis in evidence.

ie, sure you want us to think that "God" simply is equivalent to "all things". But then, why would you call it "God" instead of "all things" unless there is some sort of benefit or additional meaning?

Please clarify your position.

Thanks!

ashe

jafosei

I assume you're referring to the definition in the 'Welcome' message at the top of the forum. It doesn't seem like an unreasonable definition.

According to Merriam-Webster:

1 a : of or relating to the worldly or temporal <secular concerns> b : not overtly or specifically religious <secular music> c : not ecclesiastical or clerical <secular courts> <secular landowners>

Contrast with theism:
:belief in the existence of a god or gods; specifically : belief in the existence of one God viewed as the creative source of man and the world who transcends yet is immanent in the world

Without getting extremely picky, it would seem that "non-theistic" and "secular" are close enough for working purposes.

I don't see where anyone has suggested that belief in God excludes anyone from secularism. Even in the most deeply religious person's life, there are secular (ie. worldly) concerns. Getting enough food to eat, getting to work, etc. are all secular concerns.

The welcome message seems, to me, to be suggesting that theists are fully welcome to participate in the forum, but that the forum is specifically intended for non-theistic talk.

Of course, I might be mistaken about the source of your question; if so, my apologies for the faulty assumption.

DropOut

"*Note: For the purposes of this forum we are defining 'secular' as pertaining to non-theism, not simply lacking religious content."


Jafosei,
Look up. That quote is the source of my question.
Again I ask,why would a non-religious belief in God exclude me from secularism?
Answer: It doesn't until someone redefines "secular",which is exactly what the author of that quote has done.

Ashe,
Good question.
Here's a another one.
Why do you call it "all things" instead of "God"?
Is it because you hold to your beliefs religiously?

Toto

Define a belief in God that is "non-religious." I don't think you can.

The problem is that we don't have a good vocabulary for designating "people who don't believe in God but still have moral and philosophical concerns growing out of a naturalist worldview." Secular is as good a word as any. Someone wants us to call ourselves Brights (tm) but I prefer secular.

DropOut

Toto,
I am of no particular religious affiliation,and I believe in "God".

You're absolutely right about the limitations of vocabulary.However,since it's okay for you to use "secular",it's only fair to let me use "God".

ashe

I have already made this clear. I call it "all things" because the word "God" has additional meaning.

If it were the same as you have defined it to be, then it would just be a synonym and you could use one or the other. And I would.

Except, generally speaking, the word God is NOT the same as simply "all things." Therefore I use "all things" because it is more precise and does not imply religion.