Autonemesis

Show us another "box."

Sure we can. Speaking for myself, I exercise suspension of disbelief all the time, when I go to the movies, read a book, or just daydream. I imagine other atheists can do this too.

Rational BAC

Why can you not do exactly the same thing with spiritualism?

Why can you not accept it as at least a possibility?

Mageth

How will we be different, and if we are so different how will we still be "we"?

Oh, and theists are just as guilty of trying to "conform" a spiritual existence to our real-life rational experience here on earth. Why? Because that (our experience in this life) is our only frame of reference. Any speculation on a "spiritual existence" is defined in contrast to our earthly, physical existence. "Spiritual existence" is defined primarily by what it's not, in contrast to our earthly existence. It's not temporal, it's not "physical" (though, as luvluv says, some christians believe in a "physical", bodily resurrection of some sort), we will not be bored, we will not sin, we will not be married, there will be no sadness, etc etc. No one I've heard has any positive ways to define such an existence that aren't merely comparisons and contrasts to our present, physical existence.

Why should it not? And how will it be different, other than by negation (i.e. what it will not be).

Neither can you (lift up a tiny little corner of reality and look outside of it). You may think you can, but wherever you look, you are looking at reality. Even when you think of that "other side", the spiritual, all you can do is look at it in contrast and comparison to reality.

You're as stuck with reality as a frame of reference as we are.

Describe what I'm supposedly losing, please.

Mageth

Define "it".

Rational BAC

IT=========

What you cannot perceive with your very limited senses.

What you cannot understand with your puny intellect.

It is quite possible that there is a whole 'nother world of consciousness out there that we can only imagine. --------silly little ants that we are.

Barefoot Bree

Sure, it's possible.

But I can only deal with what my limited senses and puny intellect CAN perceive and understand. They are the only reality that impacts on my daily life.

Anything else is pure imagination. Why should I subscribe to any one imaginary existence? Give me some definite, indisputable clues as to which ONE out of the zillion-quadrillion possibilities is REAL, and hey, I'm there.

Till then, this debate is all just so much hot air.

Rational BAC

Hot air can feel good.

After all it is wintertime.

Why do you think that yours (and mine) puny little minds, and with our pitiful little senses (Hell a dog can smell better, a dolphin can transmit better----why would you think that our intellect and our senses are unique, one of a kind in the universe?).

Why would you think that we know all?

Sounds like a bit of excess egotism, and unjustifiable.

Mageth

Exactly what I expected - a definition by negation. IOW, you can't define "it". So what good is it for you to even allude to "it", if you don't know what "it" is, and can only speak of what it is not?

"There's this "it", you see..."

"What is "it" ? "

"It's not this, and it's not this, and it's not this."

"Well, that's real useful. Sounds like you don't know what "it" is, and only know what "it" is not."

If we can't perceive it and can't understand it, then how can we even imagine it?

Again, all you're saying here is what this "other world of consciousness" is not - it is not this world of consciousness. That's all you're capable of saying about it, and in so doing you're not saying anything about it at all, really.

What nonsense.

Mageth

You must be quite toasty, then.

Who said they do think that?

Who said they think we do know it all?

Well, except for the fact that those things are not what I'm saying (speaking for myself, but I don't think anyone else are saying those things either).

Clivedurdle

I think luvluv is correct about bodily resurrection.

The Bible talks about a new heaven and earth, and interestingly the Bride of Christ - so heaven has to be about being married to Jesus and marriages - because contraception is banned - whatsoever is bound on earth is bound in heaven - mean babies!

Has the discussion commented about the different types of infinities? For example there are an infinite number of prime numbers but a larger infinity of fractions.....

I must have posted somewhere else about the Q continuum in Star Trek, that discusses these issues.

(Was burning at the stake deliberately chosen as a means of execution so that there would be no body left to be resurrected?)