Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Deus Ex · 07-14-2008, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SlowTrainComing

"led to believe"... brother, it's time to drop the pretense of knowing my past... this board just thrives on that... you're the umpteenth person I've had to clue into the fact that I was not raised in an overtly Christian household.

Adults can be indoctrinated as well. It is not just children.

everettf · 07-15-2008, 05:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SlowTrainComing

Prepare for the fact that human experience will be different on the next plane.....

And you know this, How? You read this in a book, your pastor or whatever told you? Everything a christian or Islamic Thinks he knows is nothing but hearsay. You know nothing of this from experience. If you think you know this god of yours, please gives us a description of him, spirits don't count.

-Jay- · 07-15-2008, 07:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SlowTrainComing

Quote:

Originally Posted by NinJay

Howzabout a little thought experiment? Try to imagine yourself as a non-Christian - let's go all out and try to imagine yourself as a hardcore atheist. (You won't go to Hell for this, I promise.)

You can cut the midguided condescension with a chainsaw.

Agnostic/skeptic for years before accepting Christ as Savior.

"led to believe"... brother, it's time to drop the pretense of knowing my past... this board just thrives on that... you're the umpteenth person I've had to clue into the fact that I was not raised in an overtly Christian household.

Quote:

Read the Bible the same way you'd read any other old book. It's just that. An old book. There's nothing magical about it.

Says you. That doesn't make it true.

My apologies for making assumptions about your past. It's less common to move from agnosticism to Christianity than the other way around.

By and large most people are the religion that they are because they adopt the religious behaviors of their parents, just like they typically speak the same language that their parents speak in the home. Absent any information to the contrary, most people will assume that if you're a Christian (or a Muslim, or a Buddhist, or a Jew...) now, you were most probably raised that way.

The term "accepting Christ as Savior" suggests that you are a Christian of a conservative stripe, as do comments such as the one you made here. If that is correct, it in turn suggests that you hold certain views on the Bible, including its verbal plenary inspiration. Are these suggestions correct?

That said, I made two assertions about the Bible - that it's just an old book (technically, I should have said that it's a collection of old books) and that there is nothing magical about it. Which one are you objecting to? Do you have anything to offer to support a position that it's anything other than an old, non-magical book? Please be prepared to explain why your information is more credible than that of the many scholars working in the field today whose work supports the position that the books of the Bible are human works with many errors, inconsistencies, and contradictions.

regards,

NinJay

WWJD4aKlondikeBar · 07-15-2008, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SlowTrainComing

Quote:

Originally Posted by WWJD4aKlondikeBar

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

fact /fækt/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[fakt]

–noun 1. something that actually exists; reality; truth: Your fears have no basis in fact.
2. something known to exist or to have happened: Space travel is now a fact.
3. a truth known by actual experience or observation; something known to be true: Scientists gather facts about plant growth.
4. something said to be true or supposed to have happened: The facts given by the witness are highly questionable.
5. Law. Often, facts. an actual or alleged event or circumstance, as distinguished from its legal effect or consequence. Compare question of fact, question of law.
—Idioms6. after the fact, Law. after the commission of a crime: an accessory after the fact.
7. before the fact, Law. prior to the commission of a crime: an accessory before the fact.
8. in fact, actually; really; indeed: In fact, it was a wonder that anyone survived.

Christianity is indeed factual. I'm truly sorry it doesn't fall into your definition of the term.

Doesn't fall into my definition of the term?!? Dude, face it - you don't know what a fact is. You actually came to an evidence and argument based atheist forum and declared something magical to be a fact. Fail. Big time fail. FSTDT fail.

Tigers! · 07-15-2008, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NinJay

Here's the thing: Christians (and religious folks in general) have an extremely difficult time looking at their beliefs from an external perspective. If you manage to do it, you'll see that the whole thing isn't nearly as self-consistent and coherent as you've been led to believe.

regards,

NinJay

Here's the thing: Atheists (and non-religious folks in general) have an extremely difficult time looking at their beliefs from an external perspective. If you manage to do it, you'll see that the whole thing isn't nearly as self-consistent and coherent as you've been led to believe.

Potoooooooo · 07-15-2008, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tigers!

Quote:

Originally Posted by NinJay

Here's the thing: Christians (and religious folks in general) have an extremely difficult time looking at their beliefs from an external perspective. If you manage to do it, you'll see that the whole thing isn't nearly as self-consistent and coherent as you've been led to believe.

regards,

NinJay

Here's the thing: Atheists (and non-religious folks in general) have an extremely difficult time looking at their beliefs from an external perspective. If you manage to do it, you'll see that the whole thing isn't nearly as self-consistent and coherent as you've been led to believe.

How so?

WWJD4aKlondikeBar · 07-15-2008, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tigers!

Quote:

Originally Posted by NinJay

Here's the thing: Christians (and religious folks in general) have an extremely difficult time looking at their beliefs from an external perspective. If you manage to do it, you'll see that the whole thing isn't nearly as self-consistent and coherent as you've been led to believe.

regards,

NinJay

Here's the thing: Atheists (and non-religious folks in general) have an extremely difficult time looking at their beliefs from an external perspective. If you manage to do it, you'll see that the whole thing isn't nearly as self-consistent and coherent as you've been led to believe.

Maybe you were unaware that Modus Tonens is universally viewed as a moron's argument. There are many synonyms for the word "faith" and the one obviously implied on this forum is that of belief without evidence. What your copy/paste swagger nervously whistles past, Tigers, is the fact that Ninjay's belief in scientific method and godless scientific theories is based on re-testable, falsifiable evidence. Evidence which has expanded in the particular field of psychology to encompass a plausible explanation for your very mundane faith.

SlowTrainComing · 07-15-2008, 08:23 PM

.............................

SlowTrainComing · 07-15-2008, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NinJay

Do you have anything to offer to support a position that it's anything other than an old, non-magical book?

I absolutely do. The Holy Spirit's conviction provides and confirms the beliefs held within the Book.

Sapho · 07-15-2008, 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SlowTrainComing

Quote:

Originally Posted by NinJay

My apologies for making assumptions about your past. It's less common to move from agnosticism to Christianity than the other way around.

By and large most people are the religion that they are because they adopt the religious behaviors of their parents, just like they typically speak the same language that their parents speak in the home. Absent any information to the contrary, most people will assume that if you're a Christian (or a Muslim, or a Buddhist, or a Jew...) now, you were most probably raised that way.

The term "accepting Christ as Savior" suggests that you are a Christian of a conservative stripe, as do comments such as the one you made here. If that is correct, it in turn suggests that you hold certain views on the Bible, including its verbal plenary inspiration. Are these suggestions correct?

That said, I made two assertions about the Bible - that it's just an old book (technically, I should have said that it's a collection of old books) and that there is nothing magical about it. Which one are you objecting to? Do you have anything to offer to support a position that it's anything other than an old, non-magical book? Please be prepared to explain why your information is more credible than that of the many scholars working in the field today whose work supports the position that the books of the Bible are human works with many errors, inconsistencies, and contradictions.

regards,

NinJay

I absolutely do, and it's been shot down at every turn by every atheist on this board. I will state it again:

The Holy Spirit's conviction provides and confirms the beliefs held within the Book.

Thats the trouble right there! I'll see your convictions about the holy spirit and raise you 2 Sufi experiences of god and a hindu one, each one guarranteed to be as emotionally as powerful as yours.

(damn, I hope slow train folds, Im only holding a pair of 3s)

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07-15-2008, 08:23 PM	#18
SlowTrainComing Regular Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Tennessee Posts: 371	.............................

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