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Old 06-11-2007, 07:49 AM   #11
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If only it were that easy.
But it is that easy! The Gospels describe a purgatory event as seen from four different perspectives so they may compliment each other instead of contradict each other. The event takes place in the mind of Joseph hero who in the end also came for the body because he just happen to have a tomb ready that he had hewn as if out of rock with his own hands, and yes, this tomb was in the same place that he was crucified so that was rather easy for him.
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Old 06-11-2007, 10:22 AM   #12
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Most mythicists agree that Herod and Pilate were real people. Mythicism does not imply that everything mentioned in the gospels is fictional, but merely, that the story itself was intended as a mythical/mystical message rather than a historical document. That does not preclude the inclusion of real people and real events. The mythicist position would merely be that the intertwining of Jesus with these real people and real events, never actually happened.


Indeed. Jefferson Davis, Abraham Lincoln, William T. Sherman and Robert E. Lee were real people. That does not mean that Gone With The Wind was factual.
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Old 06-11-2007, 10:37 AM   #13
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Indeed. Jefferson Davis, Abraham Lincoln, William T. Sherman and Robert E. Lee were real people. That does not mean that Gone With The Wind was factual.
So how do you differentiate between real people and fake people?
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Old 06-11-2007, 11:23 AM   #14
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One can be a historicist and believe that a historical story incorporates mythological imagery and metaphors.

How to distinguish between the two?
One method is by comparing the story in question to other myths. If one detects enough similarities between the story of which its myth/history position is uncertain, and between known myths, then the myth hypothesis gathers strength.

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Old 06-11-2007, 12:03 PM   #15
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One method is by comparing the story in question to other myths. If one detects enough similarities between the story of which its myth/history position is uncertain, and between known myths, then the myth hypothesis gathers strength.
Which myths do you compare it to? How do you know that the similarities would strengthen the myth hypothesis? What about when you achieve the same results with stories whose histories are (otherwise) fact?
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Old 06-11-2007, 03:46 PM   #16
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Is believing that a building fell down and killed 18 people that crazy? While I don't think Jesus was divine in any way, shape, or form . . . what is so amazing about a building falling? Seriously!

There are a lot of absurd things in the Bible (walking on water, feeding a crapton of people with a single fish and loaf of bread, healing leapers, ect). Given all those things, the idea that a building fell down is . . . really minute.
Well, as someone who does believe that Jesus was divine, I must concur with xunzian here - I could see why people could doubt the bizarre stuff, or things that seem highly unlikely - miracles, various interactions with cultural leaders, etc., but a collapsing building that kills some people...?

What exactly is it that would be hard to believe about this, or that would make this seem 'mythical' in any way whatsoever? If anything, this is the kind of thing, I would think, that would seem to ground the story more in historicity than anything else; it is hardly an 'extraordinary' claim by any stretch...
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Old 06-12-2007, 10:17 AM   #17
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Indeed. Jefferson Davis, Abraham Lincoln, William T. Sherman and Robert E. Lee were real people. That does not mean that Gone With The Wind was factual.
So how do you differentiate between real people and fake people?
Real people have multiple sources of documentation that support their existance.


The Gone With The Wind analogy is actually probably not a good one to put up against the Biblical story. We have -way- more documentation and artifacts for the persons and occurances of the Civil War backdrop to Gone With The Wind than we do to back up the players in the Biblical stories, even those of the NT.
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Old 06-12-2007, 11:19 AM   #18
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So how do you differentiate between real people and fake people?
Real people have multiple sources of documentation that support their existance.


The Gone With The Wind analogy is actually probably not a good one to put up against the Biblical story. We have -way- more documentation and artifacts for the persons and occurances of the Civil War backdrop to Gone With The Wind than we do to back up the players in the Biblical stories, even those of the NT.
Many of the Presocratics are only singly attested. Did Zeno exist?
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Old 06-12-2007, 11:30 AM   #19
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Many of the Presocratics are only singly attested. Did Zeno exist?
Hmmm ... now that's a paradox ...
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Old 06-12-2007, 12:24 PM   #20
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Real people have multiple sources of documentation that support their existance.
They do? Do you have multiple sources of documentation for all of your ancestors? If not...maybe they didn't exist!?
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