Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Sheshbazzar · 02-26-2013, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by outhouse

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheshbazzar

I believe Saul of Tarsus wrote against the practice of gentile circumcision, and of justification by faith around 15 CE.
And I have just as much evidence for that opinion as anyone else does for apostle Paul writing anything in 60 CE.

Based on what evidence?

Opinion. The same 'evidence' that all others are employing for their beliefs.

There is nothing that is known, or is evidence about 'Jezuz', 'Paul', or 'Christianity' before the 2nd century CE.
Even wih the greatest of 'experts' it is only speculations and guesses, likewise lacking any positive contemporary evidence.

Quote:

why 15 CE?

Why not?

It's not one whit more lacking in evidence than is 60CE.

Sheshbazzar · 02-26-2013, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mountainman

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clivedurdle

And i thought the prison at Megiddo was the earliest xian site, but that talks of the god jesus christ!

Wasn't that the god jesus chrest?

Those names are not written there.

Only nomina sacra appear, which are -interpreted- as being some form of these names.

There is no way except personal -opinion-, looking at Χ-Ω, to be able to distinguish between 'christ' and 'chrest'.

or exactly which of the names the nomina sacra I-Y was intended to indicate.

The unwary get caught with their foot in their mouth.

.

mountainman · 02-26-2013, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheshbazzar

Quote:

Originally Posted by mountainman

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clivedurdle

And i thought the prison at Megiddo was the earliest xian site, but that talks of the god jesus christ!

Wasn't that the god jesus chrest?

Those names are not written there.

Only nomina sacra appear which are -interpreted- as being some form of these names.

There is no way except personal -opinion-, looking at Χ-Ω, to be able to distinguish between 'christ' and 'chrest'.

or exactly which of the names the nomina sacra I-Y was intended to indicate.

The unwary get caught with their foot in their mouth.

You are right about the Megiddo inscription being 'nomina sacra' Shesh.

I found an image here

I had in mind the Marcionite inscription from Deir Ali

Quote:

The town was historically a village known as Lebaba, and contains the archaeological remains of a Marcionite church. These remains includes an inscription dated to 318 CE, which is the oldest known surviving inscribed reference, anywhere, to Jesus:

The meeting-house of the Marcionists, in the village of Lebaba,
of the Lord and Saviour Jesus the Good
-Erected by the forethought of Paul a presbyter,
in the year 630 Seleucid era[4]

It seems that Jesus Chrestos preceeded Jesus Christos.

Sheshbazzar · 02-26-2013, 08:38 PM

Does the name 'Jesus' actually appear in the Deir Ali inscription ?
or just a nomina sacra ?

outhouse · 02-26-2013, 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheshbazzar

Quote:

Originally Posted by outhouse

Based on what evidence?

Opinion. The same 'evidence' that all others are employing for their beliefs.

There is nothing that is known, or is evidence about 'Jezuz', 'Paul', or 'Christianity' before the 2nd century CE.
Even wih the greatest of 'experts' it is only speculations and guesses, likewise lacking any positive contemporary evidence.

Quote:

why 15 CE?

Why not?

It's not one whit more lacking in evidence than is 60CE.

I expect better from you.

If you choose 15 CE, dont you have reason for such? I didnt ask about the credibility of 50 CE or 60 CE

Or is reason out of the question?

Sheshbazzar · 02-26-2013, 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by outhouse

If you choose 15 CE, dont you have reason for such?

Yep. But I have no desire nor reason enter any protracted discussion of the matter in this thread or with you.

Clivedurdle · 02-27-2013, 01:10 AM

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=br...09%3B640%3B480

And click on images

mountainman · 02-27-2013, 05:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheshbazzar

Does the name 'Jesus' actually appear in the Deir Ali inscription ?
or just a nomina sacra ?

Heya Shesh, have a look at this blog and tell me what you think. It may be that the name of Jesus is in nomina sacra form but that the "Good/Chrestos" bit is explicit.

Quote:

The earliest known church inscription (found near Damascus) is Marcionite, and dates to 318 CE.

Συναγωγη Μαρκιωνιστων κωμ(ης)
Λεβαβων του κ(υριο)υ και σω(τη)ρ(ος) Ιη(σου) Χρηστου
προνοια(ι) Παυλου πρεσβ(υτερου) -- του λχ' ετους.

["The meeting-house of the Marcionists, in the village of
Lebaba, of the Lord and Savior Jesus The Good.
Erected by the forethought of Paul the elder -- In the year 630."]

mountainman · 02-27-2013, 05:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clivedurdle

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=br...09%3B640%3B480

And click on images

Thanks CD. The Apostles? Seriously? Wow.

http://www.allposters.de/-sp/Mosaic-..._i2647747_.htm

Sheshbazzar · 02-27-2013, 12:09 PM

Wonder what makes anyone think this mosaic depicts 'the apostles'?

The central figure appears to be Medusa. One of the surrounding figures appears to be a disrobing female.
Four of the others seem to (my eyes at least) be repeated depictions of Pan playing his pipe.
I find no identifiably christian motifs.

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02-26-2013, 08:38 PM	#94
Sheshbazzar Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: On the path of knowledge Posts: 8,889	Does the name 'Jesus' actually appear in the Deir Ali inscription ? or just a nomina sacra ?

02-27-2013, 01:10 AM	#97
Clivedurdle Contributor Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: London UK Posts: 16,024	https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=br...09%3B640%3B480 And click on images

02-27-2013, 12:09 PM	#100
Sheshbazzar Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: On the path of knowledge Posts: 8,889	Wonder what makes anyone think this mosaic depicts 'the apostles'? The central figure appears to be Medusa. One of the surrounding figures appears to be a disrobing female. Four of the others seem to (my eyes at least) be repeated depictions of Pan playing his pipe. I find no identifiably christian motifs.

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