Freethought & Rationalism Archive

stephan huller · 03-02-2013, 01:09 AM

According to Josephus, Herod besieged Jerusalem during the spring and summer of a sabbatical year (Antiq., bk. 14, ch. 16, sect. 2). It is impossible to determine what that year was. Nevertheless if the temple was destroyed in a sabbatical year how could the place have been rebuilt in an ordinary year?

DCHindley · 03-02-2013, 07:29 AM

Have you checked their website?

My gawd, it is super "Catholic" and rabidly anti-Jewish (they are behind 9/11, etc, etc). I think that the author, Richard Joseph Michael Ibranyi, would be offended that a person of Jewish heritage would dare use their material.

Personally, I think that the website is part of a conspiracy by Mel Gibson's dad.

DCH

Quote:

Originally Posted by stephan huller

Fascinating list of errors in Josephus

http://www.johnthebaptist.us/jbw_eng...f_josephus.pdf

stephan huller · 03-02-2013, 07:55 AM

Yes they are crazy but as my grandmother used to say, you can learn something from everyone

stephan huller · 03-02-2013, 08:09 AM

More on the Yosippon's account of the building of the temple

Flusser's edition ch. 50 has 117 lines re building of the temple in Herod's 18th year. construction lasted 8 years not as AJ 15, 421 1 year and six months.. description follows AJ 15, 380 with some variations due to difficulty of the Latin text author followed

Clivedurdle · 03-02-2013, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clivedurdle

http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/ar...emple-of-herod

(1906)

Quote:

In the eighteenth year (20-19 B.C.) of his reign Herod rebuilt the Temple on a more magnificent scale. There are many evidences that he shared the passion for building by which many powerful men of that time were moved. He had adorned many cities and had erected many heathen temples; and it was not fitting that the temple of his capital should fall beneath these in magnificence. Probably, also, one of his motives was to placate the more pious of his subjects, whose sentiments he had often outraged.

The Jews were loth to have their Temple pulled down, fearing lest it might not be rebuilt. To demonstrate his good faith, Herod acccumulated the materials for the new building before the old one was taken down. The new Temple was rebuilt as rapidly as possible, being finished in a year and a half, although work was in progress on the out-buildings and courts for eighty years. As it was unlawful for any but priests to enter the Temple, Herod employed 1,000 of them as masons and carpenters.

Having the Christ related to I think the largest Temple on the planet makes theological sense.

But why the time shifts? Does Pontius Pilate make more sense for some theological or political reason?

Interestingly, might Herod rebuilding the Temple have been seen as a very bad move predicting the end times, so that when it was actually destroyed only 90 years later - and still incomplete - there would be more than enough rationale to start a new superstitio.

Eighten months to erect the main temple building is not illogical if you have all the building materials ready, a huge workforce and strong theological reasons to do it quickly. Main structures can be done quickly, even if like La Sagrada Familia it is not complete a hundred years later.

And why does JE say 20 BCE?

And was it a refurb/expand job, not knock down rebuild?

Clivedurdle · 03-02-2013, 11:50 AM

Theologically, what would they have done with the ark of the covenant for these eighteen months? How would they carry out the rituals?

Clivedurdle · 03-02-2013, 11:59 AM

BBC Radio 4 today had a fascinating play about the build up to the Iraq war and the writing of the document about wmds and 45 minutes.

This went through an amazing editing process to tweak meanings.

These are not new skills.

How much has Josephus been edited to confuse matters?

Quote:

The Iraq Dossier
AVAILABILITY:7 DAYS LEFT TO LISTEN
Duration: 1 hour
First broadcast: Saturday 02 March 2013
The dossier "Iraq's Weapons of Mass Destruction", lead to the headline "just 45 minutes from attack", persuaded MPs to vote for an invasion of Iraq, and hardened public opinion against Saddam Hussein. Fall out from accusations by the BBC that the claims had been "sexed up" led to the death of Dr David Kelly and the Hutton Inquiry.

This drama goes behind the scenes of MI6, the Ministry of Defence and Downing Street to dramatise one of the most controversial episodes in British politics.

The author, David Morley, has created the script from the mountain of emails, memos, and first hand testimony submitted to the various inquiries into the 2003 invasion of Iraq, as well as from first-hand interviews with Dr Brian Jones, who died in 2012 and was the MoD's leading expert on nuclear, biological and chemical weapons, concerned that exaggeration should not creep into the dossier.

Other key players include Richard Dearlove, head of MI6; John Scarlett, Chairman of the Joint Intelligence Committee and Tony Blair's adviser, Alastair Campbell.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01qzk13

stephan huller · 03-02-2013, 12:39 PM

Clive

Remember, a permanent structure contradicts the Pentateuch. The tabernacle doesn't need the temple. A portable flimsy tent is what is proscribed

Clivedurdle · 03-02-2013, 02:43 PM

Was the veil of the temple so importantly torn asunder in the christ mythos actually a tent within the temple structure?

stephan huller · 03-02-2013, 02:51 PM

No, I think it was a curtain or curtains that prevented the congregation from seeing the sanctuary.

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03-02-2013, 01:09 AM	#91
stephan huller Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: seattle, wa Posts: 9,337	According to Josephus, Herod besieged Jerusalem during the spring and summer of a sabbatical year (Antiq., bk. 14, ch. 16, sect. 2). It is impossible to determine what that year was. Nevertheless if the temple was destroyed in a sabbatical year how could the place have been rebuilt in an ordinary year?

03-02-2013, 07:55 AM	#93
stephan huller Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: seattle, wa Posts: 9,337	Yes they are crazy but as my grandmother used to say, you can learn something from everyone

03-02-2013, 08:09 AM	#94
stephan huller Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: seattle, wa Posts: 9,337	More on the Yosippon's account of the building of the temple Flusser's edition ch. 50 has 117 lines re building of the temple in Herod's 18th year. construction lasted 8 years not as AJ 15, 421 1 year and six months.. description follows AJ 15, 380 with some variations due to difficulty of the Latin text author followed

03-02-2013, 11:50 AM	#96
Clivedurdle Contributor Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: London UK Posts: 16,024	Theologically, what would they have done with the ark of the covenant for these eighteen months? How would they carry out the rituals?

03-02-2013, 12:39 PM	#98
stephan huller Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: seattle, wa Posts: 9,337	Clive Remember, a permanent structure contradicts the Pentateuch. The tabernacle doesn't need the temple. A portable flimsy tent is what is proscribed

03-02-2013, 02:43 PM	#99
Clivedurdle Contributor Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: London UK Posts: 16,024	Was the veil of the temple so importantly torn asunder in the christ mythos actually a tent within the temple structure?

03-02-2013, 02:51 PM	#100
stephan huller Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: seattle, wa Posts: 9,337	No, I think it was a curtain or curtains that prevented the congregation from seeing the sanctuary.

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