Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Doug Shaver · 03-02-2006, 05:09 PM

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Originally Posted by aChristian

you believe in right and wrong.

Yes, and I can tell the difference without consulting the opinions some people had two or three thousand years ago.

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Originally Posted by aChristian

In short, you have a conscience

If you mean what I think you mean, no, I don't. Nobody does.

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Originally Posted by aChristian

This ability to recognize right and wrong was one of the many reasons that the people of Noah's day would have recognized him as a righteous man

Now you're back to a circular argument. The fact that I can distinguish right from wrong doesn't mean I'm going to agree with you or anybody else as to what is right and what is wrong.

aChristian · 03-02-2006, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aChristian

I'll have to look up the reference, but it wasn't Robert Morey. Do you know what it is that Salman Rushdie wrote that got them so mad?

Here is one place I heard it. Listen to part 4 for the details.
http://www.khouse.org/6640/BP015/

aChristian · 03-02-2006, 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aChristian

Here is one place I heard it. Listen to part 4 for the details.
http://www.khouse.org/6640/BP015/

Actually I had forgotten. He does reference Robert Morey. I haven't read Morey's book, but would be interested in doing so.

aChristian · 03-02-2006, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aChristian

Actually I had forgotten. He does reference Robert Morey. I haven't read Morey's book, but would be interested in doing so.

I had forgotten more than I thought. I have Robert Morey's book "The Islamic Invasion". It has a lot of references. I would be interested in any errors in it that you know about. I looked at a website trying to refute it, but it didn't do a very convincing job.

aChristian · 03-02-2006, 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diogenes the Cynic

Where did you learn this, from a Chick Tract?

You are misinformed. The "Allah/ Moon God" thing is a complete canard. Mohammed explicitly identified his God as being exactly the same God of Abraham, Moses and Jesus that is worshipped by Jews and Christians.

Incidentally, Yahweh was probably originally the name of an Arabic Volcano God. Ancient etymologies prove nothing. Allah means "God" and Muslims believe that Jews and Christians worship the same God as they do.

What do you know about the "Allah/ Moon God" thing? As you can see above, I found that I have Morey's book and I am wondering where it is wrong. I am no Robert Morey fan, but the book appears to be well referenced. At this point it looks like he is right about it.

aChristian · 03-02-2006, 08:50 PM

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Originally Posted by Sven

Interesting. So we are all liars by implication. Thanks!

If the truth hurts, do something about it. Repent and follow God.

Diogenes the Cynic · 03-02-2006, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aChristian

What do you know about the "Allah/ Moon God" thing? As you can see above, I found that I have Morey's book and I am wondering where it is wrong. I am no Robert Morey fan, but the book appears to be well referenced. At this point it looks like he is right about it.

What I know about it is that it's a crock. Morey is a liar and a demagogue. He contrived this "Moon God" canard based on a bit of irrelevant etymology and deceptive quote mining. The name Il (related to the Canaanite/Hebrew El) was originally a name for the Moon God but long before the time of Mohammed it had just acquired the generic definition of "god." Mohammed simply used this term as a proper name. The name Allah has NEVER had any connotation in Islam other than the same Abrahamic God of Moses and Jesus. Mohammed explicitly identified it is such. Allah, in Islam has never had any relationship to a moon god. Mohammed didn't worship the freaking moon. Muslims don't worship the freaking moon. It's frankly rather bizarre that anyone could presume to tell Muslims what they worship. I think they would know it if they worshipped the moon, don't you?

Diogenes the Cynic · 03-02-2006, 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aChristian

If the truth hurts, do something about it. Repent and follow God.

Preaching is not allowed in this forum.

DtC, Moderator, BC&H

Sven · 03-03-2006, 01:43 AM

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Originally Posted by aChristian

Maybe a better way to say it is, "My belief has no effect on whether or not Christianity is true. It is true and the evidence for it is there for anyone to see."

Doesn't make it any less confused, sorry.

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Getting back to the point of this thread. I think you have all demonstrated with your attempts to show that God did something wrong that you believe in right and wrong. In short, you have a conscience, seared or not.

So far, so good.

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This ability to recognize right and wrong was one of the many reasons that the people of Noah's day would have recognized him as a righteous man and should have listened to him.

Umm, sorry, once more inventing something which isn't in the text? I just checked again to refresh my memory, but there isn't anything in Genesis 7&8 which suggests that Noah even tried to talk to them.

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By the way, if you want to complain about genocide, how about the flood? God righteously judged the whole world except for Noah and his family.

Problem is of course: Only Christians are able to see something "righteous" in this.

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That should put the fear of God into you.

There we have it again: Faith in god is grounded in fear - or "might makes right". Disgusting.

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Don't forget his mercy though, he promised never to send another and sealed it with the rainbow.

Oh yes, another children's fairy tale, right after the one with the ridiculous flood.

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He's kept his promise on that

Of course. Non-existent beings usually have no problems in keeping promises about making something not happen again.

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and he'll do the same with his promise of forgiveness of sins through Jesus. It's nice to remember that everytime you see a rainbow.

Yes, nice preaching do we have here.
It's of course entirely irrelevant that you have to change how nature works entirely to have had no rainbows at some time (before the flood).

Sven · 03-03-2006, 01:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aChristian

If the truth hurts, do something about it. Repent and follow God.

I wonder if the mods think these insults are too ridiculous to edit out...

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