Freethought & Rationalism Archive

RBH · 07-12-2007, 08:02 PM

Quote:

The tropical Blue Moon butterfly has developed a way of fighting back against parasitic bacteria.

Six years ago, males accounted for just 1% of the Blue Moon population on two islands in the South Pacific.

But by last year, the butterflies had developed a gene to keep the bacteria in check and male numbers were up to about 40% of the population.

and

Quote:

Gregory Hurst, a University College researcher who worked with Mr Charlat said: "We usually think of natural selection as acting slowly, over hundreds of thousands of years.

"But the example in this study happened in the blink of the eye, in terms of evolutionary time, and is a remarkable thing to get to observe."

I know, I know: They're still the butterfly kind. <growl>

RBH

chrisharrison · 07-12-2007, 08:05 PM

Psh.

I'll be impressed when they evolve into penguins.

07-12-2007, 08:47 PM

I'll be impressed when they develop wombs.

I Am Only An Egg · 07-12-2007, 09:19 PM

I'm impressed.

RBH · 07-12-2007, 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cajela

I'll be impressed when they develop wombs.

:notworthy:

Dr.GH · 07-12-2007, 10:06 PM

Evolution. Well yes. The trouble for us in the E/C confrontation is that this was not an example of speciation, and the article holds open the potential for an outside introduction of the gene.

Interesting to me and you, but ignorable by creationists.

spamandham · 07-12-2007, 10:38 PM

Why would anyone find it surprising that a mutation with tremendous survival advantage would spread like wildfire?

How many generations is 6 years for these butterflies?

Calilasseia · 07-13-2007, 01:56 AM

Assuming that the butterfly in question is Hypolimnas bolina, which is the species usually quoted in these studies (and whose males have the characteristic "blue moon" mark) then from egg to imago usually takes something like 6 to 8 weeks. Assume 8 weeks at the longest. Since the butterfly lives in equatorial rainforest regions and can breed year round without interruption, then 6 years equals about 39 generations.

Wounded King · 07-13-2007, 02:06 AM

The paper says it took 'barely 10 generations' for the sex ratio to change from 100:1 to 1:1, but it doesn't say anything about the origin of the proposed parasite suppressor genes. An earlier similar paper which is referenced (Hornett, et al., 2006) also does not give any insight to the nature of the actual change responsible for an observed supressor effect, although they can deduce some things from the simple mendelian genetics they perform, such as the likelihood that the trait is based on a single genetic locus.

TTFN,

WK

Jet Black · 07-13-2007, 02:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr.GH

Interesting to me and you, but ignorable by creationists.

yeap. I actually fail to see why it has gained so much interest from the media to be honest.

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07-12-2007, 08:05 PM	#2
chrisharrison Regular Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Austin Posts: 170	Psh. I'll be impressed when they evolve into penguins.

07-12-2007, 08:47 PM	#3
cajela Guest Posts: n/a	I'll be impressed when they develop wombs.

07-12-2007, 09:19 PM	#4
I Am Only An Egg Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: New York Posts: 1,024	I'm impressed.

07-12-2007, 10:06 PM	#6
Dr.GH Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Dana Point, Ca, USA Posts: 2,115	Evolution. Well yes. The trouble for us in the E/C confrontation is that this was not an example of speciation, and the article holds open the potential for an outside introduction of the gene. Interesting to me and you, but ignorable by creationists.

07-12-2007, 10:38 PM	#7
spamandham Contributor Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 11,525	Why would anyone find it surprising that a mutation with tremendous survival advantage would spread like wildfire? How many generations is 6 years for these butterflies?

07-13-2007, 01:56 AM	#8
Calilasseia Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Liverpool, UK Posts: 1,072	Assuming that the butterfly in question is Hypolimnas bolina, which is the species usually quoted in these studies (and whose males have the characteristic "blue moon" mark) then from egg to imago usually takes something like 6 to 8 weeks. Assume 8 weeks at the longest. Since the butterfly lives in equatorial rainforest regions and can breed year round without interruption, then 6 years equals about 39 generations.

07-13-2007, 02:06 AM	#9
Wounded King Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Edinburgh Posts: 1,211	The paper says it took 'barely 10 generations' for the sex ratio to change from 100:1 to 1:1, but it doesn't say anything about the origin of the proposed parasite suppressor genes. An earlier similar paper which is referenced (Hornett, et al., 2006) also does not give any insight to the nature of the actual change responsible for an observed supressor effect, although they can deduce some things from the simple mendelian genetics they perform, such as the likelihood that the trait is based on a single genetic locus. TTFN, WK

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