Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Seeker2000 · 06-16-2005, 09:39 AM

What do you think about this picture?

http://www.parascience.us/new_page_14.htm
http://www.parascience.us/new_page_3.htm

It was apparently taken at the famous Amityville house and shows what looks like a boy peering over the banister. It is supposedly the ghost/spirit of one of the Defeo children who were murdered in that house. I also read somewhere that it could be something like the manifestation of evil spirits who can take many forms. Well, at least there's been a lot of talk about this.

I researched the Amityville case on the net and there seem to be many claims and stories, apparently with some contradictions as well.

In the end this is the best evidence of supernatural activity at the Amityville house I could find. What do you think about it?

Shpongle · 06-16-2005, 09:47 AM

Blurry and vague, like almost all "ghost" photos. Now, if there was a series of photos of the same area, then you could determine whether there is something in that photo that shouldn't be, or if it was just a fluke.

Viti · 06-16-2005, 10:19 AM

Um, it looks like a picture of a child peering over the bannister. No reason whatsoever to think it isn't an actual child. We have no evidence of when that picture was taken and no way of knowing if anyone was in the house.

Shpongle · 06-16-2005, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LadyShea

Um, it looks like a picture of a child peering over the bannister. No reason whatsoever to think it isn't an actual child.

What about the eyes, though? Could that be caused by some kind of reflection of a flash or something?

dettus · 06-16-2005, 10:32 AM

Lame.

Btw, I've been to the house in Amityville. It's probably less that 10 minutes drive from my house. The house doesn't look any different from the millions of other houses on Long Island. The house has neighbors all around, there's busy streets nearby, etc. I haven't seen the new movie but the house doesn't even look the same. Last I saw it (about 10 years ago) it did still have the familiar window shape but I imagine the windows might have been changed by now. It wasn't white and looked the whole outside had been redone. It really isn't even worth seeing at all.

I feel bad for the new owners of the house becuase they probably have to deal with people coming over and trying to sneak pictures of the inside or whatever. Leave them alone, the house isn't haunted, never has been. It was just the sight of a horrible murder.

Viti · 06-16-2005, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete Harcoff

What about the eyes, though? Could that be caused by some kind of reflection of a flash or something?

Sure, a variation of "red eye" from the flash or some other light source. Again, nothing unheard of, especially in a grainy black and white like that.

Also, we have no chain of evidence or context for the photo, could have easily been manipulated.

Minnesota Joe · 06-16-2005, 10:35 AM

Oh, good grief. It looks like Skeptic needs to do an issue on how ghosts can be faked in photographs (they did one with UFOs). It is spookily easy.

And, yes, I have pictures of glared eyes in black and white photos but it can be easily faked as well - small mirrors on closed eyelids, for example.*

*How people take this stuff seriously is beyond me. One might say that the camera is an instrument perfectly designed to collect vague splotches of light.

Regards,

Joe

Viti · 06-16-2005, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dettus

Lame.

Btw, I've been to the house in Amityville. It's probably less that 10 minutes drive from my house. The house doesn't look any different from the millions of other houses on Long Island. The house has neighbors all around, there's busy streets nearby, etc. I haven't seen the new movie but the house doesn't even look the same. Last I saw it (about 10 years ago) it did still have the familiar window shape but I imagine the windows might have been changed by now. It wasn't white and looked the whole outside had been redone. It really isn't even worth seeing at all.

I feel bad for the new owners of the house becuase they probably have to deal with people coming over and trying to sneak pictures of the inside or whatever. Leave them alone, the house isn't haunted, never has been. It was just the sight of a horrible murder.

They changed them to square windows and changed the address to the other street (it sits on a corner, iirc) trying to keep looky loos away.

Seeker2000 · 06-16-2005, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LadyShea

Also, we have no chain of evidence or context for the photo, could have easily been manipulated.

Apparently the photo was taken by the Warrens, who also report about their investigation of the Amityville case in 1976 on their website: -http://www.warrens.net/amityvill.htm

However, they don't talk about this particular photo on their website. I read somewhere else that they don't have it examined scientifically because skeptics wouldn't believe them anyway.

BTW, their bashing of Mr. Kaplan in that text seems to be unsubstantiated. A response from someone else can be found here: -http://www.ghostresearch.org/articles/amityville.html

They also claim that the Catholic Saint Padre Pio appeared to them in the house (they prayed to him before entering the house) and is visible on a photo. I found an interview in which they talk about it:
http://www.movieweb.com/news/news.php?id=7455

Quote:

Warren: [...]
The important thing is bringing closure. You cannot bring closure unless it's fully documented. That takes a great deal of time. Father Pecoraro never went into that house to do an exorcism. He met with my husband and I, and the Lutz family, at Kathy Lutz's home, on St. Joseph's Day. And he prayed St. Joseph's prayer for us. I carried a relic for Padre Pio into that home. And in one room of the house, Padre Pio appeared.

O: Padre Pio appeared in the house?

Warren: Yes. He appeared to me. In spirit. We didn't know this when we met with Father Pecoraro, but Father Pecoraro is the judge of the church. He has a doctorate in our faith. He was a learned man. A very learned man. So, he stood to give us the Lord's Prayer. He looked directly at me. And nobody knew about the Padre Pio relic but me. I carried the relic. My husband knew, that was about all. But Pecoraro said to me, "Who do you think brought you out of that house?" I thought I was back in Catholic school. I said, "God, I guess, Father." He said, "Padre Pio, right?" And I said, "How do you know?" That was my question to him. His answer was, "Padre Pio told me so." We didn't have our proof sheets back then. And it was about a week later that our photographer, that was shooting throughout the house, called and said to Ed, "I'd like to show you something that's in one of these pictures, because I don't understand it." You know what the proof sheets look like. They're little tiny pictures. I looked at them and said, "You're going to have to blow those up. I can't tell by that." We blew them up, and we looked at the pictures of him. Padre Pio. Soon after that, I think it was our first tour date, because we were starting tour again during second semester at the University of Dayton. And it got bad press. Because they said we showed a picture of a man that looked like a Priest. So, we pulled it. Ed said, "Honey, until we can document that that's really him, I'm not going to use it." So, I said, "That's alright..."

O: The picture showed what, exactly?

Warren: Padre Pio.

O: His image appeared on a photo that the photographer took. Was he was living somewhere else at the time?

Warren: No, Padre Pio died in 1968. A relic means they're dead.

O: I didn't know.

Warren: That's alright, honey. Us Catholics, we can inform everybody. But at the University of Dayton, Ed got some bad press. It bothered me. It really did. So I began praying to him. And I began praying to Padre Pio, And I said, "If it's really you in the picture, I need to know who you are. And I need you to help me to better understand why you appeared to me." I kept praying. And I kept praying. Then we went out to California, we were doing television media. Our next date was at the University of La Hoya. On Sunday, we went to the Mass of the Good Shepard. Two men from ABC TV wanted to go with us. None of these people knew anything about Padre Pio. They knew nothing. So this one man says to me, coming out of Church, did you know Padre Pio? And I said, "I knew of him." That's how I answered. Then I asked, "Why?" And he said, "You're going to be in La Hoya tonight." And I said, "Yes, Ed and I are going to be in La Hoya tonight." And so he said, "There's a Solician school for boys, and there's a priest that served with Padre Pio, and he's a visiting priest there." I said, "Really. What's his name?" He said, "Father Ralph Negrai." So, I got back. Ed got back. And Ed said, "Honey, why don't you try to get a hold of that priest?" So, I called. I said, "Father, could you possibly spare us anytime this afternoon?" You Know? I said, "I'd love to meet a man that worked with Padre Pio." That's all I said to him. So, we went. He spoke broken English. He was a very lovely, lovely man. He served with Padre Pio in Italy. Then, from there, Ed said, "Father, I have something I want to show you." It was a room about this size, and he took his projector and showed his slide on the wall. The Priest knelt, crossed himself, and said, "Padre Pio." I said, "Father, why would he appear to me?" And his words were, "You must have asked him too."

[...]

O: Is the Padre Pio picture available to look at anywhere?

Warren: I have one in my room, but it's extremely blurry.

So as it seems, that picture isn't available online (and very blurry anyway).

Regarding George Lutz, it seems he himself doesn't like the movies, because they deviate from his story in many ways. He doesn't appear really trustworthy to me though. An interview with him and Dan Farrands who made a documentary examining the case can be found here:
http://www.horror.com/php/article-765-1.html

ALS · 06-16-2005, 11:29 AM

Wasn't all the Amityville Horror stuff proven to be a hoax?

06-16-2005, 09:39 AM	#1
Seeker2000 Regular Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Germany Posts: 393	Amityville ghost boy What do you think about this picture? http://www.parascience.us/new_page_14.htm http://www.parascience.us/new_page_3.htm It was apparently taken at the famous Amityville house and shows what looks like a boy peering over the banister. It is supposedly the ghost/spirit of one of the Defeo children who were murdered in that house. I also read somewhere that it could be something like the manifestation of evil spirits who can take many forms. Well, at least there's been a lot of talk about this. I researched the Amityville case on the net and there seem to be many claims and stories, apparently with some contradictions as well. In the end this is the best evidence of supernatural activity at the Amityville house I could find. What do you think about it?

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06-16-2005, 09:47 AM	#2
Shpongle Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Frozen North Posts: 9,920	Blurry and vague, like almost all "ghost" photos. Now, if there was a series of photos of the same area, then you could determine whether there is something in that photo that shouldn't be, or if it was just a fluke.

06-16-2005, 10:19 AM	#3
Viti Contributor Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Down South Posts: 12,879	Um, it looks like a picture of a child peering over the bannister. No reason whatsoever to think it isn't an actual child. We have no evidence of when that picture was taken and no way of knowing if anyone was in the house.

06-16-2005, 10:32 AM	#5
dettus Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: where apologists for religion are deservedly derid Posts: 6,298	Lame. Btw, I've been to the house in Amityville. It's probably less that 10 minutes drive from my house. The house doesn't look any different from the millions of other houses on Long Island. The house has neighbors all around, there's busy streets nearby, etc. I haven't seen the new movie but the house doesn't even look the same. Last I saw it (about 10 years ago) it did still have the familiar window shape but I imagine the windows might have been changed by now. It wasn't white and looked the whole outside had been redone. It really isn't even worth seeing at all. I feel bad for the new owners of the house becuase they probably have to deal with people coming over and trying to sneak pictures of the inside or whatever. Leave them alone, the house isn't haunted, never has been. It was just the sight of a horrible murder.

06-16-2005, 10:35 AM	#7
Minnesota Joe Veteran Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Minnesota Posts: 2,322	Oh, good grief. It looks like Skeptic needs to do an issue on how ghosts can be faked in photographs (they did one with UFOs). It is spookily easy. And, yes, I have pictures of glared eyes in black and white photos but it can be easily faked as well - small mirrors on closed eyelids, for example.* *How people take this stuff seriously is beyond me. One might say that the camera is an instrument perfectly designed to collect vague splotches of light. Regards, Joe

06-16-2005, 11:29 AM	#10
ALS Junior Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Chicago Posts: 10	Wasn't all the Amityville Horror stuff proven to be a hoax?

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