Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Clivedurdle · 06-09-2007, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clouseau

The factor that makes the Bible the world's best-seller is that it is an organic whole like nothing else in the cosmos. That is why all of those early sects bar one were attempts to corrupt it.

:banghead:

Which sect exactly was not and why?

aa5874 · 06-09-2007, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clouseau

Quote:

Originally Posted by aa5874

The NT was only possible through the collusion of Church and State

Very strange that the State spent so long trying to suppress its following, then.

Since the 2nd century, Christians were suppressing Christians.

The Christian Catholic Church vigorously oppressed and suppressed the Christians Marcion, Valentinus, and others of different christian doctrines because they were spreading a different brand of the 'good news' and salvation.

The cannonisation of the NT was the result of complete domination by Christians over other Christians with the help of the State.

aa5874 · 06-09-2007, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clouseau

The factor that makes the Bible the world's best-seller is that it is an organic whole like nothing else in the cosmos.

Well, has the Bible ever been a best-seller in India, the Middle East, Japan or China for the last 2000 years?

Christianity's popularity is a direct result of colonisation, slavery, wars and the threat of eternal punishment in Hell.

Clouseau · 06-09-2007, 10:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clivedurdle

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clouseau

The factor that makes the Bible the world's best-seller is that it is an organic whole like nothing else in the cosmos. That is why all of those early sects bar one were attempts to corrupt it.

:banghead:

Which sect exactly was not and why?

The 'sect' that treated the Bible as an organic whole like nothing else in the cosmos, obviously.

Clouseau · 06-09-2007, 11:02 PM

[QUOTE=aa5874;4523741]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clouseau

The factor that makes the Bible the world's best-seller is that it is an organic whole like nothing else in the cosmos.

Quote:

Well, has the Bible ever been a best-seller in India, the Middle East, Japan or China for the last 2000 years?

Possibly not.

Between 1816 (I think) and 1992, 6,000,000,000 Bibles sold, in more than 2,000 languages and dialects.

http://www.ipl.org/div/farq/bestsellerFARQ.html

Quote:

Christianity's popularity is a direct result of colonisation, slavery, wars and the threat of eternal punishment in Hell.

But you don't believe in Hell. So why should anyone else? Or do you believe the Bible?

Clouseau · 06-09-2007, 11:05 PM

[QUOTE=Clivedurdle;4523566]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clouseau

Very strange that the State spent so long trying to suppress its following, then.

Quote:

Where do you get these fantasies? Romans were eclectic collectors of religions.

To keep the plebs in thrall. Then came along a guy who said they were all imaginary.

Quote:

xians were no worse treated than the myriads who died in the games or in wars or in torture or executions.

That must have been a comfort.

Clouseau · 06-09-2007, 11:08 PM

[QUOTE=aa5874;4523701]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clouseau

Very strange that the State spent so long trying to suppress its following, then.

Quote:

Since the 2nd century, Christians were suppressing Christians.

Prove it.

Quote:

The cannonisation of the NT was the result of complete domination by Christians over other Christians with the help of the State.

Scratch an atheist, find a Catholic.

Mr. Logic · 06-10-2007, 04:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mountainman

Assuming we have authors in antiquity writing about the good news
why do you suppose the publication of the package now known as
the bible, consistent of the Hebrew Bible plus the New Testament,
was not enacted by someone before Constantine c.331 CE?

Dont you think 300 years is a little after-the-fact?

And even if you postulate gospels written as late as 131 CE,
that is still two centuries until someone formally publishes the
package texts of the new christian religion.

How is the delay to be explained?

How about with common sense?
The Roman Government was Anti Christian until Constantine! The Churches were not unified, before that time. Being aligned with Government was not a good thing, and that is when a lot of the Illogical doctrines and dogma started, where you had to believe this, and that or you were not only a heretic, but one that might find himself dead for disagreeing with the government. The Protestant movement brought many back to that kind of fragmentation, which is sad in the fact that Believers are not to be divided, and yet it is better to be divided than United under a Fallen World Church dictatorship/totalitarian system.

I have been proving that "James" is not compatible with the writings of Paul for some years now, so I don't believe in a completed Canon! James was nothing more than a Religious Man with a bunch of Religious opinions, and no commission. He is amazingly illogical.

DCHindley · 06-10-2007, 06:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mountainman

Assuming we have authors in antiquity writing about the good news
why do you suppose the publication of the package now known as
the bible, consistent of the Hebrew Bible plus the New Testament,
was not enacted by someone before Constantine c.331 CE?

Dont you think 300 years is a little after-the-fact?

And even if you postulate gospels written as late as 131 CE,
that is still two centuries until someone formally publishes the
package texts of the new christian religion.

How is the delay to be explained?

Mountainperson,

You might want to take a look at David Trobisch's The Original Edition of the New Testament (or via: amazon.co.uk) for his hypothesis that, based on the mss evidence, the NT as we know it was published, as an edition, probably sometime in the mid 2nd century CE.

You will note that Irenaeus copiously quotes from virtually every NT book by about 175-185 CE.

Avidday Indleyhay

aa5874 · 06-10-2007, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aa5874

Since the 2nd century, Christians were suppresing Christians

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clouseau

Prove it.

Please read Agaisnt Heresies by Irenaeus at http://www.columbia.edu/cu/augustine...s/advhaer1.txt

You will get some insights of the suppresion that occurred among Christians in the 2nd century.

The Christian, Marcion of Pontus, was kicked out of the Roman Church for his beliefs around the middle of the 2nd century. Marcion a believer and follower of Christ, taught that Jesus was not the son of Mary and Jesus Christ came directly from heaven to earth.
See http://www.earlychurch.org.uk/article_marcion.html

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