stephan huller

not good enough for what?

Iskander

You should explain why you say what you say.

Ages ago castration was also your interpretation of Genesis 32:25, but you have never explained why you said that.

DCHindley

All it would take is moving the "word that Jerusalem will be rebuilt" to approximately 358/7 BCE (1st year of Artaxerxes I) from those necessary for Jesus (491 = 30th of Darius I for birth around 2 BCE, or between 459/8 and 453/2 BCE for crucifixions in 30CE and 36CE respectively). All these starting dates are fairly arbitrary.

However, Daniel 9 pins it to the Prophesy of Jeremiah (29:10), which may be dated from the Date Marker in 29:2 as 597/6 BCE (8th yr of Nebuchadnezzar II). FWIW, Cyrus' 1st year was 538/7 BCE.

DCH

maryhelena

Hi, DCH

In your first sentence, I think you mean the 7th year of Artaxerxes I(around 458/7 b.c.) and not his l st year...465 b.c....

My own thinking is that OT prophecy moves along with Jewish history. No one size fits all situations. The maths of Daniel ch.9 can be adjusted - and perhaps that is the beauty of Daniel’s version of the 70 year prophetic idea. An updated version of Jeremiah’s 70 year idea. Not all at once; that would be a dead-end formula. Rather an open-ended formula in order to move with Jewish history.

A straightforward reading of 490 years from around 537/536 b.c. would take one to around 47 b.c. But prophetic history did not end there. Consider the story in Slavonic Josephus and it’s use of Daniel ch.9 to the siege of Jerusalem by Herod the Great in 37 b.c. ...........10 years after the end of a straightforward reading of Daniel ch.9. And in 37 b.c.? Antigonus was executed by Marc Antony.

What we have here is the 490 years (from 537/6 b.c.) ending around 47 b.c. 7 years from that date and Antigonus becomes King and High Priest in Jerusalem, 40 b.c.. 3 years later he is executed - middle of a week if one so wants to add yet another 7 years from 40 b.c. Thus, the prophecy is now open-ended - a middle of a 7 year period has not been 'closed'.....Re application becomes possible. Not in another physical execution but in a mythological or symbolic 'execution'. The gospel JC storyboard. A re-run of Daniel's number formula but not of the physical application.

Josephus’ Jewish War and Its Slavonic Version: A Synoptic Comparison (or via: amazon.co.uk) H. Leeming (editor) K. Leeming (editor)

Josephus' Jewish War and Its Slavonic Version: A Synoptic Comparison
H. Leeming (Editor), K. Leeming (Editor)

Page 172 from the Slavonic Josephus


Immediately the priests started to grieve
and complain to one another, saying among
themselves in secret (things)they would
not dare to say in public because of Herod’s
friends.

For they were saying: ‘The Law forbids us
to have a foreigner (as) king, but we are
expecting the Anointed, the Meek One, of
David’s line. Yet we know that Herod is an
Arab, uncircumcised. The Anointed One
will be called meek but this (king) has
filled our whole land with blood. Under
the Anointed the lame were to walk,
the blind to see, the poor to prosper,
but under this (king) the hale have become
lame, those who could see have gone blind,
the rich are beggared.

But is this (king)the hope of nations?
We detest his misdeeds, are the nations
going to hope in him?”

Alas, God has abandoned us and we are
forgotten by Him, and he wishes
to commit us to desolation and ruin,
not as in the time of Nebuchadnezzar
or Antiochus! For them the prophets were
teachers of the people and promised us
captivity and return. But now there is
no one to ask and no one to console (us)!
In reply the priest Ananus told them:

“I know all the Writings. When Herod was
fighting in front of the city,
I never imagined that God would allow him
to reign over us. But I now understand
that our devastation is <already> at hand.
And consider Daniel’s prophecy. For he
writes that after the Return, the city of
Jerusalem will stand for 70 weeks of
years, that is 400 years and 90, and will
lie waste after those years”.

And they calculated the years and it was so.

stephan huller

agreed dch. but the 70 ad model for whatever reason became the authoritative interpretation

DCHindley

I thought it was to blemish them so they could not claim the kingdom for themselves.

From the letters of Bar Kosiba that have survived from Wadi Murabba`at and Nahal Hever, he seemed to have observed traditional Jewish holidays. They also indicate that he was an absolute ruler, who governed by threats.

DCH

stephan huller

but does that make any sense? they went out of their way NOT to inherit the kingdom of heaven? hadrian isn't an insignificant figure in the rabbinic literature. he is interchangeable with other spokesmen of antinomianism. the ban on castration is related to the revolt IMO

DCHindley

Oops, 358/7 BCE would be the 1st year of Artaxerxes III. 490 years later would be 131/2 CE, just as the rebellion started (we know from letters from Kosiba himself he must have been in firm control of the rebellion in Feb 132 CE.

DCH

stephan huller

É interessante pensar por que Daniel foi escolhido por Marcos para o capítulo 13. Tradição judaica posterior subordina Daniel. Eu acho que o livro tinha um valor mais alto antes de o evangelho.

DCHindley

Osay, isway histay itway, Icelinepay egotiatornay? Ogay ereverway hetay indway akestay ouyay, Ephansay. Ionarasay!

DCH