Freethought & Rationalism Archive

maryhelena · 04-05-2012, 12:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diogenes the Cynic

[Sigh]

There are many JC stories, and there is no "NT story." The NT is an anthology, not a contiguous narrative.

There is one JC story - a story about a crucified man. There are variations on this story. The NT is a collection of stories about a crucified man. :banghead:

Diogenes the Cynic · 04-05-2012, 12:20 AM

Who is the first person to see Jesus after his resurrection in "the New Testament story?"

maryhelena · 04-05-2012, 12:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diogenes the Cynic

Who is the first person to see Jesus after his resurrection in "the New Testament story?"

Take your pick - the JC crucifixion story is a template upon which authors could develop their theological musings..

Quote:

Are the Synoptic Gospels Copy Exercises? Jesus and Anacreon

New Testament scholars are very much more familiar with classical civilization than they used to be. So much so that biblical studies on the New Testament side has matured enormously in the twentieth and early twenty-first century from the parochial theological discipline it was in the nineteenth. But at a programmatic level, it needs to scrap the idea of authorial attribution completely and to acknowledge that the production of New Testament gospels, at least in the case of the synoptics, was an anacreonic process—a process of imitation, based on the desire to imitate and enhance rather than merely to produce or propagate an original. Admirers of the Jesus-story were using a prototype for copy exercises. Whose story it was is of no importance, and remains of no importance well into the second century.

<snip>

For all we know one such copyist may have been named Mark and another Luke. But if that is so, it is only accidentally so and they were men of no significant personal distinction. They were men who took it upon themselves to imitate, “restore” or amend the lost (or nearly lost) prototype, the master-copy of the Jesus story.
http://rjosephhoffmann.wordpress.com...-and-anacreon/

my bolding

Diogenes the Cynic · 04-05-2012, 07:20 AM

So now you're trying to change "the NT story" to just "the synoptic story?"

Who was the first person to see Jesus after the resurrection in the synoptic story?

maryhelena · 04-05-2012, 07:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diogenes the Cynic

So now you're trying to change "the NT story" to just "the synoptic story?"

Who was the first person to see Jesus after the resurrection in the synoptic story?

If this is an important question for you - try Wikipedia for an answer.

Resurrection appearances of Jesus

Quote:

Mark 16
See also: Mark 16
The so-called "longer ending of Mark" contains three appearances:

To Mary Magdalene, Mary, the mother of James, and Salome.
To two of Jesus's followers as they were walking in the countryside (Jesus appeared to them in "another form").
To the eleven while they were dining.
The ending of Mark varies substantially between ancient manuscripts, and scholars are in near universal agreement that the final portion of the traditional ending, in which all Mark's resurrection appearances occur, is a later addition not present in the original version of Mark's gospel.[9] Most scholars view the lack of a resurrection appearance as having theological significance. Richard Burridge compares the ending of Mark to its beginning:

“ Mark's narrative as we have it now ends as abruptly as it began. There was no introduction or background to Jesus' arrival, and none for his departure. No one knew where he came from; no one knows where he has gone; and not many understood him when he was here.[10]

Matthew 28

As Mary Magdalene and "the other Mary" were running from the empty tomb to inform the disciples that he is alive, Jesus tells the women to instruct the disciples to go to Galilee ahead of him to greet him (Matthew 28:10).
To the eleven apostles on a mountain in Galilee where Jesus had directed them. See Great Commission.

Luke 24

Supper at Emmaus by Matthias Stom, c 1633-1639. Note the "breaking of bread" as the precise moment of the disciples' recognition.
In the Road to Emmaus appearance to Cleopas and one other disciple as they walked to Emmaus. At first "their eyes were holden" so that they could not recognize him. Later while having supper at Emmaus "their eyes were opened" and they recognized him.
To "Simon." This appearance is not described directly by Luke but it is reported by the other apostles. It is not clear whether this happened before or after the appearance at Emmaus.
To the eleven, together with some others (including Cleopas and his companion), in Jerusalem.
In Luke 24:13-32 Cleopas and his companion relate how Jesus was made known to them "in the breaking of bread". B. P. Robinson argues that this means the recognition occurred in the course of the meal,[7] but Raymond Blacketer notes that "Many, perhaps even most, commentators, ancient and modern and in-between, have seen the revelation of Jesus' identity in the breaking of bread as having some kind of eucharistic referent or implication."[8]

Diogenes the Cynic · 04-05-2012, 07:59 AM

Notice how there are multiple "JC stories" there, not just one?

maryhelena · 04-05-2012, 08:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diogenes the Cynic

Notice how there are multiple "JC stories" there, not just one?

Did I not say earlier - one gospel JC crucified story - and variations upon a theme.....

Solo · 04-05-2012, 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diogenes the Cynic

Who is the first person to see Jesus after his resurrection in "the New Testament story?"

It's the one who understood Franz Kafka's parable of the Messiah cca 1900 years before it was written :

Quote:

Originally Posted by Franz Kafka

The Messiah will come as soon as the most unbridled individualism of faith becomes possible - when there is noone to destroy this possibility and noone to suffer its destruction. This perhaps is Christian doctrine too, applying as much to the actual presentation of the example to be emulated, which is individualistic example, as to the symbolic representation of the resurrection of the mediator in the single individual.

The Messiah will come only when he is no longer necessary; we will only come on the day after his arrival; he will come, not on the last day but on the very last.

Best,
Jiri

EarlDoherty · 04-05-2012, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maryhelena

And Earl, if you want to have an exchange with me - drop the negativity. I don't engage with people who seek to belittle their opponent. I won't do so with any historicists who plays that card - and I won't do so with a mythicist either.

I wish you luck in engaging your ideas with others. It has never worked between you and me, and I'm once again bowing out.

Earl Doherty

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04-05-2012, 12:20 AM	#72
Diogenes the Cynic Moderator - Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota Posts: 4,639	Who is the first person to see Jesus after his resurrection in "the New Testament story?"

04-05-2012, 07:20 AM	#74
Diogenes the Cynic Moderator - Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota Posts: 4,639	So now you're trying to change "the NT story" to just "the synoptic story?" Who was the first person to see Jesus after the resurrection in the synoptic story?

04-05-2012, 07:59 AM	#76
Diogenes the Cynic Moderator - Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota Posts: 4,639	Notice how there are multiple "JC stories" there, not just one?

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