Freethought & Rationalism Archive

fatpie42 · 03-30-2007, 07:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hokowo

but it only makes a dif for about rarely smal period of time on a small amount of things and when looked at in the hwole picture tend to the limit of zero .

Why look at it in comparison to the whole of existence?

I note that you haven't looked at the extract from my essay, or you would already have seen Nagel's exposition of the illogicality of your claim here:

"How could there be an external reason for ‘taking aspirin for a headache’, ‘attending an exhibition of the work of a painter one admires’, ‘stopping a child from putting his hand on a hot stove’? The justifications for these actions seem to be self-contained."

The reason for teaching people about the problems of car crashes naturally only makes sense while car crashes still exist. That does not make education on this subject and the difference made by it any less meaningful.

hokowo · 03-30-2007, 07:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Writer@Large

Hokowo, I think my feelings generally follow those of pkostrze, JPD, and the others (I liked Mr Carcer's response, especially), so I won't bother repeating them. But pkortrze asked a question of you that you didn't answer, and I'm hoping you could, because it's a good one:

I think he's absolutely right, and I was wondering what you would answer to it.

--W@L

Quote:

what added meaning would theism provide to ones life?

clarity on the big picture. but meaning well depends what you define, but like i said in the post the real question was what difference did your life make. in the end its about yourself.

Quote:

Would Mother Theresa's works be any less meaningful had she been secular?

was her works meaningfull? dont confuse actions with belief and goal etc.

post tenebras lux · 03-30-2007, 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Writer@Large

Hokowo, I think my feelings generally follow those of pkostrze, JPD, and the others (I liked Mr Carcer's response, especially), so I won't bother repeating them. But pkortrze asked a question of you that you didn't answer, and I'm hoping you could, because it's a good one:

Quote:

The question I pose is - what added meaning would theism provide to ones life? Would Mother Theresa's works be any less meaningful had she been secular? Would the holocaust provide meaning to Hitler's life had he done it in the name of god? He certainly made a difference... was that a good thing?

I think he's absolutely right, and I was wondering what you would answer to it.

--W@L

Except that in hokowo's worldview, Hitler's actions - and the difference Hitler made - "it only makes a dif for about rarely smal period of time on a small amount of things and when looked at in the hwole picture tend to the limit of zero."

So, to paraphrase, in the big scheme of things: Hitler, the Holocaust, and all of the suffering in WWII is 'no biggie'.

Can't you just feel the love of humanity that washes over you?

_Naturalist_ · 03-30-2007, 08:57 AM

Nothing about this universe has a meaning except to minds who can see things in such a way. If they feel their lives have meaning, then I would say that's true, to them and probably to others as well.

Potoooooooo · 03-30-2007, 09:07 AM

hokowo all of your threads are starting to sound alike, just what game are you playing?

TomboyMom · 03-30-2007, 09:20 AM

I don't even know what the question means. I mean, words have meaning, symbols have meaning, but lives...? Does it mean is my life important? Well, it is to me and a few other people. Compared to the entire universe, no, not much. Does it mean do I have a purpose? Yes, I feel that I do, especially since I am responsible for several other lives. So anyway, I don't really understand the question.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl Sagan

Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there - on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.

The Earth is a very small stage in a vast cosmic arena. Think of the rivers of blood spilled by all those generals and emperors, so that, in glory and triumph, they could become the momentary masters of a fraction of a dot. Think of the endless cruelties visited by the inhabitants of one corner of this pixel on the scarcely distinguishable inhabitants of some other corner, how frequent their misunderstandings, how eager they are to kill one another, how fervent their hatreds.

Our posturings, our imagined self-importance, the delusion that we have some privileged position in the Universe, are challenged by this point of pale light. Our planet is a lonely speck in the great enveloping cosmic dark. In our obscurity, in all this vastness, there is no hint that help will come from elsewhere to save us from ourselves.

These seem to be the facts.

Weltall · 03-30-2007, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Potoooooooo

hokowo all of your threads are starting to sound alike, just what game are you playing?

I think he's hoping that one of us will say 'Hey, he's right, my life is meaningless and there's no reason to be moral and I should just die and stuff. Hey, this book looks pretty cool. Ooh, it's callled the Koran, I think I'll convert right away'. Not bloody likely.

Eldarion Lathria · 03-30-2007, 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Weltall

I think he's hoping that one of us will say 'Hey, he's right, my life is meaningless and there's no reason to be moral and I should just die and stuff. Hey, this book looks pretty cool. Ooh, it's callled the Koran, I think I'll convert right away'. Not bloody likely.

Binngoo. That's exactly what he's trying to do. He's just another preacher. Does my life have meaning and purpose? Yes. Life's purpose is to BE.

Eldarion Lathria

Weltall · 03-30-2007, 10:05 AM

I thought the purpose of life was seafood but being is ok too (gold stars for anyone who knows where that comes from).

EssEff · 03-30-2007, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Weltall

I thought the purpose of life was seafood but being is ok too (gold stars for anyone who knows where that comes from).

I thought it was 42.

View Poll Results: Atheists, do you feel/think your life is meaningfull or makes a difference?
YES,	73	80.22%
NO,	10	10.99%
other please Explain	8	8.79%
Voters: 91. You may not vote on this poll

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03-30-2007, 08:57 AM	#24
_Naturalist_ Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Sweden Posts: 5,914	Nothing about this universe has a meaning except to minds who can see things in such a way. If they feel their lives have meaning, then I would say that's true, to them and probably to others as well.

03-30-2007, 09:07 AM	#25
Potoooooooo Contributor Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: USA Posts: 13,541	hokowo all of your threads are starting to sound alike, just what game are you playing?

03-30-2007, 10:05 AM	#29
Weltall Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: San Francisco Posts: 3,283	I thought the purpose of life was seafood but being is ok too (gold stars for anyone who knows where that comes from).

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