beyelzu

Isnt this a logical fallacy?

Hasty generalization

you have made a rule based on one example or are you going to claim that this rule is based on many examples and is inductive logic???


Just checking

livius drusus

Whoa, whoa, whoa. Beyelzu, let's not revive the stultifying who's fallacy is bigger/does the universe care segment of the convo. For the love of gog man, how many splits can I do in a night?

Let's focus on majestyk's post and the issues of stereotyping and ridicule, please.

pz

No, it is appropriate and necessary. The universe does not care. It's a bunch of unthinking, unaware rocks and gases and whatnot; if that bothers people, the problem doesn't lie in reality or in accurate descriptions of it, but in people's pre- and misconceptions.

I'm unclear on what point you are trying to make here. Are we supposed to be sensitive to people's hopes that the universe likes them personally, and so should avoid saying anything about the universe's intents or (more accurately) lack thereof?

pz

Sorry, ignore what I just wrote. It was written before seeing Livius's statement that it was a no-no...I've completely lost track of what this thread is supposed to be about, I guess.

livius drusus

I can't think why.

seebs

Well, I think the obvious conclusion to draw from a lot of the recent discussion is that there are many, many, different belief systems gathered together under names like "atheism" and "Christianity", and that people on both sides are inclined to talk to one person, find out what that person believes, and generalize broadly.

This can be either improved or aggravated, depending, by ideas such as the idea of coining new terms for metaphysical naturalists.

I think that being stereotyped tends to make people more likely to stereotype others. The degree to which someone is likely to act or speak as though all Christians are interchangeable depends on the degree to which that person has been lumped in with others recently by Christians.

Some of the hostile atheist stereotypes are rooted in things taught by various religions; others are based, however loosely, on things actual atheists have said. I've seen enough people say they'd rather go to Hell than serve any being remotely similar to the Christian God to not be entirely surprised when theists claim atheists are "choosing" Hell, for instance. I think it's probably a poor conclusion to draw, and rather misses the rhetorical point, but...

As to what people can do, I think one of the best things is to start communicating, and start trying to look past the stereotypes. The stereotypes you can most effectively dispel are the ones you accept, not the ones people judge you by.

seebs

I had another thought about this.

There's a certain symmetry between the way that atheists tend to condemn theists as irrational, and theists tend to condemn atheists as lacking faith.

In the end, it comes down to two people pointing at each other and saying "you don't use the same tools I do". More importantly, it's pointing at people who reached different conclusions than you did, and saying "You don't use my methods!". Well, duh. People who reach different conclusions *often* do so by using different methods.

beyelzu

sorry, got sidetracked, will make posts that are actually on topic in the future, no really I will, quit laughing.


seriously, sorry for the digression.

beyelzu

I dont know about the recently part, seems to me that its more of a typically or often thing. As in people from group y keep telling me the same thing so all y-ners believe that thing. The aforementioned hasty generalization logical fallacy.

Quote:

Some of the hostile atheist stereotypes are rooted in things taught by various religions; others are based, however loosely, on things actual atheists have said. I've seen enough people say they'd rather go to Hell than serve any being remotely similar to the Christian God to not be entirely surprised when theists claim atheists are "choosing" Hell, for instance.

Hell, I think this is something I have said on more than one occasion.

Quote:

I think it's probably a poor conclusion to draw, and rather misses the rhetorical point, but... As to what people can do, I think one of the best things is to start communicating, and start trying to look past the stereotypes. The stereotypes you can most effectively dispel are the ones you accept, not the ones people judge you by.

seebs

Exactly! There's a lot of very hasty generalization going on out there. It's especially problematic because, frankly, both "atheism" and "Christianity" are very, very, broad terms.

I think I've said it at least once about some particularly odious conception of God. I once spent an evening trying to explain to a well-meaning Christian why I saw no merit at all in the "turn or burn" argument.