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Old 05-13-2012, 07:44 AM   #141
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Both Paul and Cephas are messianists. Paul, who became a messianist after causing trouble among the messianists, sought out messianists when he got involved with the religion, or so it seems from Gal 1. It's after that that he told them of his revelation and they went their different ways.
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Only geographically. One went east, t'other went west, but they were alike as two peas...
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That's why Paul repudiated Cephas.
Now there's the acme of logical thought.
It shows that you are massaging the information rather than taking it for what it says.
Romans 2:1.
That's ironic from you.
Predictable spin, eh. Pity you didn't think of it before.
You sadly made the faux pas.

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Originally Posted by spin
Is this the same person who had no trouble picking corn on the sabbath
That was not breach of the Law.
Spoken like a true sheister.
Like someone who actually knows what he's talking about.
No, that doesn't follow.
It follows just as soon as you prove that there was a breach of Mosaic Law, of course.
There are two sheisterisms in the one passage. 1) but David did it
The only shyster in this is you.
Yet another example of you showing how ironic you were citing Rom 2:1.

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Originally Posted by sotto voce View Post
Stop spinning around the topic just a moment, and answer the question. Was it a breach of Mosaic Law to pick corn on a Sabbath?
I don't deign to give it the value you are attempting to. I merely pointed out that the Pharisees saw it as a break of the sabbath law. The rest is up to the shyster.

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Oh, you can't answer that, because you haven't even started to read that Bible.
You're sadly misguided into thinking it needs to be answered. You and your albatross.

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If you had, you would know that it wasn't illegal to pick corn on any day, and it did not breach the Sabbath law to do so, as no fire was lit.
Whoa, shyster alert!!!!

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It did breach the illegal laws of the pathetic 'Jews' who had the damnedest nerve to even live in Judaea, let alone pontificate.
This appears to be purely an anti-Semitic bowel movement.

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Jesus was far too kind. The beggars would have been put to the sword in a real Israel.
You simply don't show any understanding of the sabbath. The day before was called the "day of preparation" for a reason.

Besides, the `Am ha-Aretz were left to their own deeds.

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Unless he wanted to let their sins come to fruition, of course.

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Feel free, spin. The world is your lobster. Take your time.
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I do feel free, sotto voce caro mio. I sit back and watch you cart your albatross around.
Oh, ha. You wince in pain while my 20 inch HE shells blow your magazine. I sank you very much.
Albatross! Fresh albatross!
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Old 05-13-2012, 08:19 AM   #142
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What are saying ? Chesterton was not defending Christian orthodoxy ?

Best,
Jiri
If papism is orthodoxy, one dries clothes in water. If papism is orthodoxy, the sun comes out at night.
Repeating an idiotic tangent does not make it any less idiotic. It simply confirms the idiocy. :huh:

Best,
Jiri
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Old 05-13-2012, 08:22 AM   #143
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Both Paul and Cephas are messianists. Paul, who became a messianist after causing trouble among the messianists, sought out messianists when he got involved with the religion, or so it seems from Gal 1. It's after that that he told them of his revelation and they went their different ways.
Quote:
Only geographically. One went east, t'other went west, but they were alike as two peas...
Quote:
That's why Paul repudiated Cephas.
Now there's the acme of logical thought.
It shows that you are massaging the information rather than taking it for what it says.
Romans 2:1.
That's ironic from you.
Predictable spin, eh. Pity you didn't think of it before.
You sadly made the faux pas.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sotto voce View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by spin
Quote:
Originally Posted by sotto voce View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by spin
Quote:
Originally Posted by sotto voce
Quote:
Originally Posted by spin
Quote:
Originally Posted by sotto voce
Quote:
Originally Posted by spin
Is this the same person who had no trouble picking corn on the sabbath
That was not breach of the Law.
Spoken like a true sheister.
Like someone who actually knows what he's talking about.
No, that doesn't follow.
It follows just as soon as you prove that there was a breach of Mosaic Law, of course.
There are two sheisterisms in the one passage. 1) but David did it
The only shyster in this is you.
Yet another example of you showing how ironic you were citing Rom 2:1.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sotto voce View Post
Stop spinning around the topic just a moment, and answer the question. Was it a breach of Mosaic Law to pick corn on a Sabbath?
I don't deign to give it the value you are attempting to. I merely pointed out that the Pharisees saw it as a break of the sabbath law. The rest is up to the shyster.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sotto voce View Post
Oh, you can't answer that, because you haven't even started to read that Bible.
You're sadly misguided into thinking it needs to be answered. You and your albatross.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sotto voce View Post
If you had, you would know that it wasn't illegal to pick corn on any day, and it did not breach the Sabbath law to do so, as no fire was lit.
Whoa, shyster alert!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by sotto voce View Post
It did breach the illegal laws of the pathetic 'Jews' who had the damnedest nerve to even live in Judaea, let alone pontificate.
This appears to be purely an anti-Semitic bowel movement.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sotto voce View Post
Jesus was far too kind. The beggars would have been put to the sword in a real Israel.
You simply don't show any understanding of the sabbath. The day before was called the "day of preparation" for a reason.

Besides, the `Am ha-Aretz were left to their own deeds.

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Originally Posted by sotto voce View Post
Unless he wanted to let their sins come to fruition, of course.

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Originally Posted by sotto voce View Post
Feel free, spin. The world is your lobster. Take your time.
Quote:
I do feel free, sotto voce caro mio. I sit back and watch you cart your albatross around.
Oh, ha. You wince in pain while my 20 inch HE shells blow your magazine. I sank you very much.
Albatross! Fresh albatross!
:grin: I'll leave you to your dream world on the ocean bottom.
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Old 05-13-2012, 08:42 AM   #144
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What are saying ? Chesterton was not defending Christian orthodoxy ?

Best,
Jiri
If papism is orthodoxy, one dries clothes in water. If papism is orthodoxy, the sun comes out at night.
Repeating an idiotic tangent does not make it any less idiotic.
That's not a nice thing to say about Herr Ratzinger. Just because he calls himself Bent Edict doesn't mean that he's a tangent. Just that he's as far from BC&H as it is possible to get.
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Old 05-13-2012, 09:20 AM   #145
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Originally Posted by spin View Post
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Originally Posted by spin View Post
Both Paul and Cephas are messianists. Paul, who became a messianist after causing trouble among the messianists, sought out messianists when he got involved with the religion, or so it seems from Gal 1. It's after that that he told them of his revelation and they went their different ways.
Quote:
Only geographically. One went east, t'other went west, but they were alike as two peas...
Quote:
That's why Paul repudiated Cephas.
Now there's the acme of logical thought.
It shows that you are massaging the information rather than taking it for what it says.
Romans 2:1.
That's ironic from you.
Predictable spin, eh. Pity you didn't think of it before.
You sadly made the faux pas.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sotto voce View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by spin
Quote:
Originally Posted by sotto voce View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by spin
Quote:
Originally Posted by sotto voce
Quote:
Originally Posted by spin
Quote:
Originally Posted by sotto voce
Quote:
Originally Posted by spin
Is this the same person who had no trouble picking corn on the sabbath
That was not breach of the Law.
Spoken like a true sheister.
Like someone who actually knows what he's talking about.
No, that doesn't follow.
It follows just as soon as you prove that there was a breach of Mosaic Law, of course.
There are two sheisterisms in the one passage. 1) but David did it
The only shyster in this is you.
Yet another example of you showing how ironic you were citing Rom 2:1.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sotto voce View Post
Stop spinning around the topic just a moment, and answer the question. Was it a breach of Mosaic Law to pick corn on a Sabbath?
I don't deign to give it the value you are attempting to. I merely pointed out that the Pharisees saw it as a break of the sabbath law. The rest is up to the shyster.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sotto voce View Post
Oh, you can't answer that, because you haven't even started to read that Bible.
You're sadly misguided into thinking it needs to be answered. You and your albatross.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sotto voce View Post
If you had, you would know that it wasn't illegal to pick corn on any day, and it did not breach the Sabbath law to do so, as no fire was lit.
Whoa, shyster alert!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by sotto voce View Post
It did breach the illegal laws of the pathetic 'Jews' who had the damnedest nerve to even live in Judaea, let alone pontificate.
This appears to be purely an anti-Semitic bowel movement.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sotto voce View Post
Jesus was far too kind. The beggars would have been put to the sword in a real Israel.
You simply don't show any understanding of the sabbath. The day before was called the "day of preparation" for a reason.

Besides, the `Am ha-Aretz were left to their own deeds.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sotto voce View Post
Unless he wanted to let their sins come to fruition, of course.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sotto voce View Post
Feel free, spin. The world is your lobster. Take your time.
Quote:
I do feel free, sotto voce caro mio. I sit back and watch you cart your albatross around.
Oh, ha. You wince in pain while my 20 inch HE shells blow your magazine. I sank you very much.
Albatross! Fresh albatross!
:grin: I'll leave you to your dream world on the ocean bottom.
Hmm, great comeback. Makes as much sense as the rest of your palaver. Upshot is, sotto voce posts, reaction is "shyster alert!" It's the equivalent of noting sotto voce's lips moved. (It's a perversion of an old joke: how do you know when a lawyer is lying? -- its lips move. Of course, it's not lying in your case: it's just shystering.) Here's what it will look like:

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Old 05-13-2012, 09:57 AM   #146
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The gospels were written after Paul and their veracity cannot be related to Paul.
False


different oral traditions from different geographic locations.

Later additions but still came from sources that may have been close to jesus then paul as paul knew very little of HJ.



Its evident the gospels were never dependant on the epistles.




You know require special pleading




the rest of your post was drivel and not worth responding
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Old 05-13-2012, 10:48 AM   #147
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The gospels were written after Paul and their veracity cannot be related to Paul.
False
Yawn.



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different oral traditions from different geographic locations.
Psychic at work.

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Originally Posted by outhouse View Post
Later additions but still came from sources that may have been close to jesus then paul as paul knew very little of HJ.
"that may", ie cluelessness at work. That Paul knew nothing tangible about a historical Jesus doesn't help your sorry ass.


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Its evident the gospels were never dependant on the epistles.
Bald assertion. Fact, matey, not assertion. You have such empty rubbish so often.

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You know require special pleading
Amusing. Explain the special pleading from reading the text of Paul our earliest writer for what he indicates.

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the rest of your post was drivel and not worth responding
You've proven yourself incapable of serious response above, so I couldn't expect you to say anything better.
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Old 05-13-2012, 11:54 AM   #148
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Muhammed Ali had sparring partners that were world champion quality themselves. Like Larry Holmes. The problem with sparring nincompoops is that they drag you down to their level.
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Old 05-13-2012, 01:34 PM   #149
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If you actually read what Paul says and not what you want him to say, then you'd know he doesn't support your theory. The only thing you know about the messianists he persecuted is that they were not orthodox Jews, as he was at the time. He doesn't tell you that they knew anything about Jesus. Read Paul. Don't pervert him....
In Galatians the Pauline writer SPECIFICALLY claimed he PERSECUTED the FAITH he NOW, NOW, NOW preached.

Galatians 1:23 KJV
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But they had heard only, That he which persecuted us in times past NOW preacheth the FAITH which once he destroyed.
What ever Paul NOW preached what he PERSECUTED in Galatians.

Galatians 2:20 KJV
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I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live ; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the FAITH of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me...
Galatians 3:11 KJV
Quote:
But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by FAITH.
Why is it so difficult for people to even acknowledge that the Pauline claimed he PERSECUTED the FAITH that he PRESENTLY PRESENTLY Preached???

In the very Galatians, the Pauline writer CLAIMED that there were APOSTLES Before Him.
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Old 05-13-2012, 06:24 PM   #150
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Quote:
TedM wrote:

Setting Paul aside, doesn't all of the early evidence we have about what the early Jewish Christian groups thought about Jesus show that they regarded him to have been a Jewish man who walked the earth?

From the Nazarenes and Ebionites, to Celsus, to the Talmud, and more, Jesus was a man.

Wouldn't the Jews have known best who Jesus was?
.
"..Setting Paul aside, doesn't all of the early evidence we have about what the early Jewish Christian groups thought about Jesus show that they regarded him to have been a Jewish man who walked the earth?.."

The 'GIUDEI-CRISTIANI' (Jewish-Christians) had NOTHING to do with Jesus of Nazareth, nor with 'jesuan-gnosticism' (the REAL 'εκκλησια' founded by Jesus) and nor even with the 'catto-cristianesimo' (catholic-christianity), now simply called 'Christianity'.

The 'Judeo-Christian' cult, in fact, was strictly related to Orthodox Judaism, from which only differed about the vision and consideration with respect to the 'Messiah' awaited. According to Orthodox Judaism, the Messiah has not yet been revealed, nor the time of Jesus, nor in the current ones (Jews still waiting for his 'coming'), on the contrary, according to the 'Jewish-Christian', which structure of worship and doctrine was developed in Antioch (see Acts of the Apostles), presumably between 85-90 (and however BEFORE the famous rabbinical synod which was held in the town of Jamnia in the early years 90), the expected Messiah one had already shown into world, but was not recognized because of its characteristics and its 'mission' clearly contrasted with those of the imaginary common sense of Orthodox Jews.

As we clearly shows the current rabbinic literature (Talmud and other), the Jewish contemporaries of Jesus of Nazareth believed him a man and NOT a god, with the aggravating circumstance of being a 'magician Exorcist' and a traitor of the Jewish people. (it was a POLITICAL accusation and NOT one religious!). .

We find the charge of 'treason' against Jesus, even in the Mandaean literature. However, the concept of betrayal that was to the basis of accusations that the 'Mandaeans/nasurei' turned to Jesus, was DIFFERENT from the one on which were based instead the charges of Orthodox Jews. Understand and frame historically accusations of treason that 'nasurei' (now 'Mandaeans') addressed to Jesus, means projecting deeply themselves into what was the REAL dynamic that led to 'gesuanismo', for first, and subsequently to Catholic Christianity ...


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