Diogenes the Cynic

We have texts just claiming siblings flat out, no need to "defend" it in the earliest layers. Defend it against what? When did Irenaeus ever hear a perpetual virginity claim?

jdboy

Didn't Irenaeus defend the church against these gnostic texts? So there is no defense of james as a sibling from any time?

"Bishop Irenaeus, who supervised the church in Lyons, c. 180, wrote five volumes, entitled The Destruction and Overthrow of Falsely So-called Knowledge, which begin with his promise to set forth the views of those who are now teaching heresy . . . to show how absurd and inconsistent with the truth are their statements . . . I do this so that . . . you may urge all those with whom you are connected to avoid such an abyss of madness and of blasphemy against Christ.

He denounces as especially "full of blasphemy" a famous gospel called the Gospel of Truth. Is Irenaeus referring to the same Gospel of Truth discovered at Nag Hammadi' Quispel and his collaborators, who first published the Gospel of Truth, argued that he is; one of their critics maintains that the opening line (which begins "The gospel of truth") is not a title. But Irenaeus does use the same source as at least one of the texts discovered at Nag Hammadi--the Apocryphon (Secret Book) of John--as ammunition for his own attack on such "heresy." Fifty years later Hippolytus, a teacher in Rome, wrote another massive Refutation of All Heresies to "expose and refute the wicked blasphemy of the heretics."
http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/Pagels...c-Gospels.html

aa5874

The author of gMatthew did NOT promote the Perpetual Virginity of Mary and claimed Jesus was Fathered by the Holy Ghost. See Matthew 1.18-20

Papias is considered an early writer who wrote Before the Belief in Perpetual Virginity and claimed the Father of James the Apostle was Alphaeus and his mother was the SISTER of Mary. See Fragment X

The author of gMark did NOT promote the Perpetual virginity of Mary and mentioned TWO Apostles called James--James the Son of Zebedee and James the son of Alphaeus. See Mark 3.15

Please there is ZERO--NIL--NO attestation of Galations 1.19 in the Canon BEFORE and AFTER the Belief in the Perpetual Virginity of Mary.

Again, the Pauline writer is a LIAR. His claim is NOT attested even in the Canon.

And, by the way, the Jesus of Galatians and Pauline letters is NOT the historical Jesus.

In the Pauline letters, Jesus was LORD, the Christ, Son of God, a Quickening Spirit and was RAISED from the dead.

The Historical Jesus was a little known preacher man.

1 Corinthians 15:45 KJVGalatians 1:1 KJV We MUST not forget what HJers are attempting to do.

They are claiming that THEIR HJ was a little known preacher man but are using the "BIOGRAPHY" of a character that was supposedly WELL-KNOWN throughout Judea, was believed to be the Messiah and Son of God and the Savior of Mankind as preached by a Pauline writer in the Roman Empire.

The NT Canon is NOT a source for a little known preacher man.

It is remarkable that Galatians 1.19 is NOT attested at all but HJers still cling to it.

Huon

There are three competing theories about the question of the brothers of Jesus :
· The theory of Helvidius, written before 383. The brothers and sisters of Jesus are the children of Joseph and Mary, born after Jesus. Helvidius supported his opinion by the writings of Tertullian (ca.160 – ca. 220) and Victorinus (died 303 or 304) of Poetovio (Ptuj, Slovenia).

· The theory of Epiphanius (ca. 310–320 – 403) who was bishop of Salamis and metropolitan of Cyprus at the end of the 4th century. The brothers and sisters of Jesus are the children of a previous marriage of Joseph.

· The theory of Saint Jerome (c. 347 – September 30, 420). The "brothers and sisters" of Jesus are really his cousins, born of a brother of Joseph, Clopas by name, and a sister of Mary, bearing the same name, Mary, Mary of Clopas.

Iskander

Mark writes about the family of Jesus, but the church wanted Jesus to be a god, and the mother free from the ‘original sin’ and ‘unpolluted’ by a loving husband.

Deniers seem to have been educated in a Catholic seminar.

aa5874

Whether or NOT the supposed mother of Jesus did NOT have other "children" has ZERO effect on the NATURE of Jesus and his FATHER in the Canon.

It is INTERNALLY MULTIPLE ATTESTED that Jesus was the Son of God or born of the Holy Ghost and a woman in virtually every book of the Canon including Galatians.

There is ZERO-NIL-NO attestation that James the Apostle had a human brother called the Lord Jesus Christ.

And again, we must NOT ever forget what HJers are attempting to do.

They assert THEIR Jesus was a LITTLE known preacher man but are using a source with a character called Jesus who was WELL-KNOWN and was declared to be the Son of God, was raised from the dead.

The Canon is NOT about a LITTLE known preacher man.

HJers are using Myth Fables for history.

Solo

Quotes, please !

Best,
Jiri

Huon

The Hjers of the fifth century could not agree on the brothers of JC... their Lord

Diogenes the Cynic

Not these ones, no. The aieparthenos (perpetual divinity) development postdates Irenaeus.

jdboy

There is no defense of James as a sibling of Jesus? Is there no rebuttal to the apocalypse of james? So no one really believed Jesus had a brother named james?