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Old 10-12-2007, 08:10 PM   #1
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Default Abortion is wrong

According to this table, we can see that every 2008 presidential election candidate that is Democrat supports abortion; moreover, all but one lone Republican opposes abortion.

When trying to compare my views to that of the candidates, I find that I am confused on how to answer that question, and I would really like to sort out that confusion so that I know how to answer that question properly.

For reasons that are not a matter up for discussion, I believe that abortion is wrong, but I nevertheless find great difficulty using that reason alone to automatically infer that I therefore belong to the camp that opposes abortion, mainly because I’m really not sure what it means exactly to say of one that he or she supports or opposes it.

Yes, I think abortion is wrong, but not so wrong that I cannot readily agree that I am pro-choice, and by that, I mean that women ought to have the legal right to choose whether or not they are going to have an abortion. Another way to understand my view is that I do not want to call upon our legal system to legislate my morals onto others (at least not on this issue).

I also have some uneasy reservations about labeling myself as one who supports it because I find it wrong, so it may inadvertently seem as though I have questionable morals since I’m willing to turn a blind eye to it by not seeking legislative measures to prohibit what I think is wrong.

To make matters worse, I feel that if push came to shove that I may be a hypocrite. For example, I could visualize dreadful scenarios where I may even encourage one to have an abortion despite my feeling that it is wrong, and despite how wrong I think it may be, I still don’t want the ability for certain things to be stripped from me.

I know that most of you have no qualms whatsoever with aborting an unborn fetus, and to be honest, I’m a bit distant from it myself in that I don’t have strong issues with it, especially if I don’t have a personal stake in the matter, but if asked if I think it’s actually wrong, then regardless of what I may or may not do, I still think it’s wrong and thus will answer accordingly.

Does it make sense that a person can find abortion wrong and nevertheless be pro-choice? I’m trying to think of it like making a weighted decision. For example, if a person finds it so immoral that our rights should be immaterial, then a person would oppose it, yet if a person finds it especially important to avoid the crippling of people’s rights more, then a person would support it.

Remember that I am not asking a moral question but instead trying to ascertain where it is I actually stand on a political issue. I really do not like the phrase, “I support abortion.” It sounds like a very awfully contradictory sounding thing to say aloud, especially since I think abortion is wrong, but then again, maybe it doesn’t mean what I think it means. What say you?
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Old 10-12-2007, 08:26 PM   #2
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The political issue is whether abortion will be legal, not whether it is moral for you or anyone to have a particular abortion. There was just a study that showed that women in countries where abortion is illegal have as many abortions as women in countries where abortion is legal.

If you think that the law should allow abortions, you are pro-choice, not pro-abortion.
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Old 10-12-2007, 08:54 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by fast View Post
For reasons that are not a matter up for discussion, I believe that abortion is wrong, but I nevertheless find great difficulty using that reason alone to automatically infer that I therefore belong to the camp that opposes abortion, mainly because I’m really not sure what it means exactly to say of one that he or she supports or opposes it.
....
Remember that I am not asking a moral question but instead trying to ascertain where it is I actually stand on a political issue.
I think it is useful to be aware of the distinction between the personal issue, and the political. If you, personally, think that abortion is wrong, then which of the following approaches to the political question seems best:

1) "... therefore, it is wrong for everyone, we must ban it."

2) "... therefore, we should strive to create the societal conditions which make it rarer - things like better (more realistic) sex education, a better economy with an educated workforce, etc."

The second approach is, arguably, more difficult to implement, and the cause-and-effect relationship harder to pin down. But it makes sense to me to say that, while I dislike abortion personally, an open and mature society (i.e. pro-choice) will have a better chance of reducing the need for them.
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Old 10-12-2007, 09:00 PM   #4
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Yes its wrong because abortion discriminates against men,I am a man and I want to exercise my right given by the supreme court to an abortion,unfortunately Im a man cannot get pregnant,but i want to exercise that right to having a glob of tissue sucked out of my vagina.
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Old 10-12-2007, 09:08 PM   #5
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Remember that I am not asking a moral question but instead trying to ascertain where it is I actually stand on a political issue.
The moral question is whether or not you would have an abortion.

The political question is whether or not you think that no one should have an abortion.
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Old 10-12-2007, 09:15 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Toto View Post
The political issue is whether abortion will be legal, not whether it is moral for you or anyone to have a particular abortion. There was just a study that showed that women in countries where abortion is illegal have as many abortions as women in countries where abortion is legal.

If you think that the law should allow abortions, you are pro-choice, not pro-abortion.
Or, to adjust that a little bit to be even more politically charged, the issue is whether or not you think that a Government should determine whether a woman can have an abortion.

The "right to lifers" claim that it's the Government's job to protect all of its citizens and then simply define a fetus as a citizen, even though the Government does not. So they are essentially arguing that a fetus should be defined as a citizen (or "person") and therefore be afforded all of the rights of a citizen.

That's the political aspect of it.
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Old 10-12-2007, 09:49 PM   #7
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If you think that the law should allow abortions, you are pro-choice, not pro-abortion.
To some, this may be a play on words, but I do not support a law that allows a woman to have an abortion; however, I do oppose a law that prohibits a woman to have one.
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Old 10-12-2007, 09:56 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by perfessor View Post
If you, personally, think that abortion is wrong, then which of the following approaches to the political question seems best:

1) "... therefore, it is wrong for everyone, we must ban it."

2) "... therefore, we should strive to create the societal conditions which make it rarer - things like better (more realistic) sex education, a better economy with an educated workforce, etc."
In reference to the first option, I'd like to say that I am uncomfortable with the wording of, "wrong for everyone." I believe abortion is wrong, and I really do not know what to make of the phrase, "wrong for everyone."

I do not think we must, nor do I think we should ban it. I am for a world without the need for women to abort their unborn children. I think it would make for a better world if women did not do that. Some don't think that way, but I do.

I just don't the think the path to this ideal is necessarily by prohibiting abortion. I think the prohibition of it is a wrong move, and so I oppose its prohibition.
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Old 10-12-2007, 10:01 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Keith&Co. View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by fast View Post
Remember that I am not asking a moral question but instead trying to ascertain where it is I actually stand on a political issue.
The moral question is whether or not you would have an abortion.

The political question is whether or not you think that no one should have an abortion.
I think whether or not its right or wrong to have an abortion is the moral question.

As to your second statement, I suppose I do indeed think that no one should have an abortion. I think it's wrong, remember. But, that I think no one should have an abortion is not to say that I am ready to prohibit it by calling for legislative coercion.
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Old 10-12-2007, 10:06 PM   #10
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Or, to adjust that a little bit to be even more politically charged, the issue is whether or not you think that a Government should determine whether a woman can have an abortion.
I do not think the government should determine whether a woman can have an abortion.

Quote:
The "right to lifers" claim that it's the Government's job to protect all of its citizens
I think it would be great to have a government that protected its citizens.

Quote:
and then simply define a fetus as a citizen, even though the Government does not.
A fetus is not a citizen.

Quote:
So they are essentially arguing that a fetus should be defined as a citizen (or "person") and therefore be afforded all of the rights of a citizen.

That's the political aspect of it.
Based on what I've said, is it reasonable to conclude that I would have a little green check on the issue in the link I provided in the original post?

Also, can I assume that "supports abortion" actually means "pro-choice?"
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