john_v_h

Actually, the name was (most likely) "Yeshua." "Jesus" is a Latin approximation.

Biff the unclean

Do you realize that the ONLY place the slaughter of the innocents by Herod is mentioned, is the book of Matthew?

Not quite, it is also mentioned in the OT. Of course there the supernatural hero baby who escapes the "slaughter of the innocents" is Moses. "Slaughter of the innocents" is a standard mythological motif and the story can be traced back through the middle east (Darius I escaped the "slaughter of the innocents" as an infant) all the way to the Vedic Gods. Like every other event in Jesus' "life" it's a story originally of Pagan Gods.

What I find telling in the Matthew version is that the villain is the Jewish authority, while the heroes are priests of the God Mithra. Mithraism being the prime religion of the Roman legion at the time Matthew would have been written. Also note that only the Mithrains in this story recognize Jesus as a demigod, the Jews see him only as a political threat.

Biff the unclean

The Latin approximation of Yeshua is Joshua. Jesus is Joshua doll-ed up to sound more like Zeus. Brand name recognition

Jobar

Never heard that before (re the final form of 'Jesus'; I know the Roman alphabet renders it 'Joshua'.) Got any references to support that, Biff?

Biff the unclean

Never heard that before (re the final form of 'Jesus'; I know the Roman alphabet renders it 'Joshua'.) Got any references to support that, Biff?
Not web references. But please remember your Latin (as a callow beardless youth I was forced to translate Virgil--no wonder Dante stuck him in Hell) pronunciation. In English Jesus is gees-us while in Latin it is jay-zeus (ever so much classier that Josh).
The word Zeus means "father of Gods" even though Homer lengthened his title to "father of Gods and Men". The "us" in Zeus is related to the Greek word dios which originally meant "bright" but came, via Zeus, to mean "God" (as in "Dios me libre de hombre de un libro").
Changing Joshua--a common as dirt name--into Jesus makes it a name of God (Son of God). It's no longer a translation of Yeshua but what the Hell, it's way cool and says exactly what the authors wanted it to say.

Viti

I assumed everyone would know I meant in the native language of the time

If I say "Joe is a very common name" and it is translated to Spanish, it becomes Jose.

Haran

Perhaps a nit-pick, but there is no "J" in Latin. And I would not consider "jay-zeus" correct. The latin is "Iesus", note the "s" of "sus" rather than "zeus". It would probably have been pronounced "Yesoos" or "Iesoos".

This is a transliteration of the Greek "Iesous", which is probably a transliteration of the Hebrew/Aramaic "Yeshu", a shortened form of Yeshua/Yehoshua (i.e. "Joshua"/"Jehoshua").

What is your source for this information? The "us" of both "Iesus" (latin) and "Iesous" (greek) is referred to as a lanuagage case ending, which can change. It can be "Iesu" (latin) and "Iesou" (greek) in the genitive case or it can be "Iesum" (latin) and "Iesoun" (greek) in the accusative case. "Iesus" (latin) and "Iesous" (greek) are both in the nominative case.

"Dios", from what I have noted, is another form of God, probably itself derived from "Zeus". It could not find an entry for "dios" as originally meaning "bright".

Bede

Haran,

Biff has been spouting rubbish throughout this thread. Just go back and look at it - could keep someone happy for days correcting all his mistakes and weird speculation. It reads just like the nuttiest pagan parallels stuff.

HuggyBear,

Don't worry about the rubbish the other side are posting here, but if you want to effectively argue with them you will need to do a great deal of background reading - at least to the level of a major in NT studies and in Greek. Biff's cod Latin and Greek is pure fantasy but you would need knowledge of the languages to show that. Email me if you need any tips.

Yours

Bede

Bede's Library - faith and reason

Doctor X

Can we just take my parsing of the fallacies in the previous post as "given?"

--J.D.

Toto

I had read that Jesus = Zeus parallel before and assumed that it was based on bogus linguistics. It is actively promoted by some New Age types, but I tried google and immediately found this:

Is the name Jesus derived from Zeus? (answer - No)

"Jupiter" is reputedly derived from "Zeus" somehow - Jupiter = Zeus + Pater (father). But the derivation of Jesus from Joshua / Yeshua is clear, and Jesus as pronounced as it was in the time of the Roman Empire would probably not have sounded very much like Zeus or Jupiter. A better argument can be made that Jesus would have sounded similar to the name of a healing god, Iaso, but even there it is a stretch.

Back on topic, if you can find it.