Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Tammuz · 10-23-2006, 01:34 PM

I think the Kurds should get their own country. They are their own people (despite Turkization attempts by Turkey) with their own culture, history ad traditions. They have since long been oppressed by their Turkish, Arab and Persian overlords. What's so wrong with giving them their own country? Neither country would disappear because of that, and no peoples would be displaced or oppressed because of it either. What would happen is that northern Iraq, eastern Turkey and north-western Iran would no longer belong to those countries, but being Kurdistan, the Land of the Kurds. In addition, these three countries would no longer have to bother with their discontent and separatistic Kurdish minorities.

There is another thing for the rest of the world to consider too. The Kurds are, at least partially, nominally Muslims, but they are usually not very strong believers. There is no coincidence that the Kurdish areas of Iraq are the calmest. An independent Kurdistan would most likely be a secular democracy and thus, alongside Israel, be a light beam of the Middle East, in an ocean of darkness.

In short, an independent Kurdistan would be a positive thing for the Kurds, the Middle East and the world in general. Or what do you think?

Booyakasha! · 10-23-2006, 02:07 PM

I agree. The Kurds have an interesting culture. With the oil money, they could sustain themselves and make a nice little country. I'm sure the US would be willing to protect them militarily, as long as they don't drift too far toward Islamic rule, which is not likely. In all, it seems like a good idea.

EarlOfLade · 10-23-2006, 02:19 PM

I suggest 3 new countries:
Kuraq, Shiraq and Suraq!

Spenser · 10-23-2006, 02:32 PM

It is economically feasible? I mean, where is the oil in Iraq and who gets how much?

Happy Wonderer · 10-23-2006, 02:47 PM

That, my friend, is where it gets complicated. Kirkuk is where the oil is. Is it Kurdish, or is it Arab?

People are being displaced as we speak due to this idea. The other question is how many of the Kurds actually want to be part of an impoverished third world nation, and how many want to be part of a country that has a decent shot at entry into th E.U.?

The other question is which bloodthirsty gang of terrorists gets to rule Kurdistan, they don't seem to agree. The Kurdish Independence movement spends about as much time fighting the Independent Kurdish movement as it spends fighting anybody else. (Actually it is the PUK vs the PKK but you get my drift.)

There is no really good answer. I think the best thing would be for the other countries to stop discriminating against the Kurds and the Kurds to stop blowing things up in response.

Booyakasha! · 10-23-2006, 02:51 PM

The Kurds have good oil resources in the north, and the Shi'ites have a ton of oil in the south. It's the Sunnis who would get fucked if the country split, and rightfully so, considering that it is the Sunnis who are refusing to join the new government.

jayh · 10-23-2006, 03:03 PM

The Kurds should get their own country, but unca Bush has a problem because in ally Turkey, the Kurds are "terrorists" and if they get their country then the Kurds in Turkey will want to join, and we just can't have that.

Kurds are only good when they suit US policy.

Hubble head · 10-23-2006, 03:16 PM

A more recent article
www.zdmcirc.com/zdmcirc/popups/extpop.html

The shia's and sunni's are all for cutting the kurds off except the kurd's won't go without being given access to Kirkuk and the oil revenues. The sunnis and shias have said they will not let that happen ever under any circumstances.

The 3 nation plan some of us here have been talking about since the summer of '03 is the best bet for everyone except the foreign investors (read oil and construction co's) who then would have to cull three Govts, not one.

emphryio · 10-23-2006, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Booyakasha!

I agree. The Kurds have an interesting culture. With the oil money, they could sustain themselves and make a nice little country. I'm sure the US would be willing to protect them militarily, as long as they don't drift too far toward Islamic rule, which is not likely. In all, it seems like a good idea.

Since 1984, the Turkish military has bombed and depopulated more than 3,000 Kurdish villages in its campaign to eradicate the Kurdistan Workers Party (PKK), a militant Kurdish opposition group. As a result, 30,000 people have died, and two million Kurdish refugees have been driven out of their homes into overcrowded urban shantytowns.....

Eighty percent of Turkey's weapons imports are stamped MADE IN THE U.S.A. and, over the last decade, Ankara has received more than $12 billion in direct and indirect U.S. military assistance.
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Ne...keyIsrael.html

Rohannon · 10-23-2006, 08:16 PM

I think it is stepping backward dividing countries up into ethnic enclaves. It's a recipe for war and conflict in the future as these fiefdoms clamor over resources, ports, etc. Minorities in fiefdoms suffer greatly. Look at a map of WW1 Europe and it makes sense not to revert to racial/ethnic/religious states.

10-23-2006, 01:34 PM	#1
Tammuz Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Sweden Posts: 5,525	The Kurds should get their own country I think the Kurds should get their own country. They are their own people (despite Turkization attempts by Turkey) with their own culture, history ad traditions. They have since long been oppressed by their Turkish, Arab and Persian overlords. What's so wrong with giving them their own country? Neither country would disappear because of that, and no peoples would be displaced or oppressed because of it either. What would happen is that northern Iraq, eastern Turkey and north-western Iran would no longer belong to those countries, but being Kurdistan, the Land of the Kurds. In addition, these three countries would no longer have to bother with their discontent and separatistic Kurdish minorities. There is another thing for the rest of the world to consider too. The Kurds are, at least partially, nominally Muslims, but they are usually not very strong believers. There is no coincidence that the Kurdish areas of Iraq are the calmest. An independent Kurdistan would most likely be a secular democracy and thus, alongside Israel, be a light beam of the Middle East, in an ocean of darkness. In short, an independent Kurdistan would be a positive thing for the Kurds, the Middle East and the world in general. Or what do you think?

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10-23-2006, 02:07 PM	#2
Booyakasha! Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: California. Posts: 2,698	I agree. The Kurds have an interesting culture. With the oil money, they could sustain themselves and make a nice little country. I'm sure the US would be willing to protect them militarily, as long as they don't drift too far toward Islamic rule, which is not likely. In all, it seems like a good idea.

10-23-2006, 02:19 PM	#3
EarlOfLade Banned Join Date: May 2006 Location: Orlando, Fl Posts: 5,310	I suggest 3 new countries: Kuraq, Shiraq and Suraq!

10-23-2006, 02:32 PM	#4
Spenser Banned Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Don't you wish your boy friend got drunk like me, Posts: 7,808	It is economically feasible? I mean, where is the oil in Iraq and who gets how much?

10-23-2006, 02:47 PM	#5
Happy Wonderer Veteran Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Washington, the least religious state Posts: 5,334	That, my friend, is where it gets complicated. Kirkuk is where the oil is. Is it Kurdish, or is it Arab? People are being displaced as we speak due to this idea. The other question is how many of the Kurds actually want to be part of an impoverished third world nation, and how many want to be part of a country that has a decent shot at entry into th E.U.? The other question is which bloodthirsty gang of terrorists gets to rule Kurdistan, they don't seem to agree. The Kurdish Independence movement spends about as much time fighting the Independent Kurdish movement as it spends fighting anybody else. (Actually it is the PUK vs the PKK but you get my drift.) There is no really good answer. I think the best thing would be for the other countries to stop discriminating against the Kurds and the Kurds to stop blowing things up in response.

10-23-2006, 02:51 PM	#6
Booyakasha! Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: California. Posts: 2,698	The Kurds have good oil resources in the north, and the Shi'ites have a ton of oil in the south. It's the Sunnis who would get fucked if the country split, and rightfully so, considering that it is the Sunnis who are refusing to join the new government.

10-23-2006, 03:03 PM	#7
jayh Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 4,606	The Kurds should get their own country, but unca Bush has a problem because in ally Turkey, the Kurds are "terrorists" and if they get their country then the Kurds in Turkey will want to join, and we just can't have that. Kurds are only good when they suit US policy.

10-23-2006, 03:16 PM	#8
Hubble head Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Corn rows Posts: 4,570	A more recent article www.zdmcirc.com/zdmcirc/popups/extpop.html The shia's and sunni's are all for cutting the kurds off except the kurd's won't go without being given access to Kirkuk and the oil revenues. The sunnis and shias have said they will not let that happen ever under any circumstances. The 3 nation plan some of us here have been talking about since the summer of '03 is the best bet for everyone except the foreign investors (read oil and construction co's) who then would have to cull three Govts, not one.

10-23-2006, 08:16 PM	#10
Rohannon Regular Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: United States Posts: 410	I think it is stepping backward dividing countries up into ethnic enclaves. It's a recipe for war and conflict in the future as these fiefdoms clamor over resources, ports, etc. Minorities in fiefdoms suffer greatly. Look at a map of WW1 Europe and it makes sense not to revert to racial/ethnic/religious states.

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