LP675

Lol.

Peter did. He and his goons fed them poison Communion wafers. They then conspired to keep the story secret, and you have finally uncovered the terrible truth.
Well done.

Magdlyn

LP, why so angry? I offered you 3 options. You are more than welcome to choose #2 if it suits you!

LP675

Hmm… Angry? I suppose my posts might be construed in that way. I did actually wonder if these posts might be thought of by someone as angry. I don’t harbor any anger, I was simply pointing out these assertions that these people were killed because they didn’t pay enough to the church was false. I do get a little ticked seeing unfounded drivel asserted as though it were fact. I also haven’t been here for a while so all my pent up adjectives are forcing their way out .

There is however a problem with your options, which were;
As historical fact, with some kind of mysterious death and a coverup.

As theology, with a warning about not lying to god's spirit, whatever that means.

As a complete fantasy.


I personally would only ‘choose option #2’ if it was something like: “As historical fact, with some kind of death (not particularly mysterious, God did it), which conveys theological meaning, and a warning about lying to God.

Magdlyn

Yes, you seem quite angry and sarcastic. More than "a little ticked" when you said:

After all, these events were reported, or designed, by an author with a certain theological bias to support. He might have interpreted history through a pair of Jesus colored glasses.

Or, he might have made it up. We do not have outside corroboration at all, so we do not know, unless we just take it on faith. Some people are not inclined to do so.

So you would combine options 1 & 2. All righty then! Just don't expect rationalists and skeptics to agree with you, OK? They have their own well thought out POVs.

I get a point you are trying to make is, they were punished "by God" for lying, not for refusing to give all they had.

I am glad God no longer strikes people down for lying anymore, aren't you? I think we'd all be dead.

LP675

Lol. They say sarcasm is the lowest form of wit. If you read Baidarka’s post he links to that is what he suggests happened. I grant him he has a fertile imagination.

Hmmm…‘well thought out’? If you insist. Of course I can hardly expect skeptics to believe the bible. The only point I have been attempting to make here was the one you acknowledge below;
How do you know he doesn’t?
But yes I am glad not every person who lies is stuck dead or I would be in glory now

BTW: I saw someone mention something about this earlier, although it is wild speculation, many believe these people were not sent to hell, merely killed.

LP

Chris Weimer

Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's. (i.e. give money away and devote your life to God, or no money for yourself...)

Magdlyn

This is extremely disrespectful. And sarcastic, again.

You would be in glory for lying? Are Peter's vicitims headed for "Glory?"

Many people believe this? Do you mean some Xtians here or on another board believe this? Do you have a reference?

And you are hoping you are also not to be damned for lying, only "killed?" And what happens after the killing? I do not think you are being at all serious, or even making sense.

I do not think these lukewarm benefactors of Peter's church coffer should have been killed. They needed some counseling and might have learned more about God's love and the community of the devout and been saved. Instead, at the first misstep, they were simply struck down. I do not think they died of guilt. It seems there was a supernatural cause. And an overly harsh one at that.

But I am guessing my opinions are not well enough thought out for you, so this post is useless.

LP675

This post is to the best of my knowledge devoid of snide remarks and sarcasm (including this statement).
I am truly sorry you feel this way. I don’t think it was sarcasm. I simply was airing my initial doubts as to whether I (or any person of any opposing viewpoint) could affirm such opposing views were “well� thought out. They probably could, but what one means by “well thought out� I suppose is the issue. Saying ‘if you insist’ was simply my way of expressing reservations, but not contesting the point. I acknowledge my comment could be construed as a snide remark.

no, as I understand the gospel I would be killed for lying, and headed for glory because I was a part of the kingdom of God (or a child of God).

I don’t think they are in any real sense ‘Peters victims’. If anything there were God’s ‘victims’, but I would probably feel more comfortable saying they were victims of their own greed.
Are they headed for glory? I don’t know. I am guessing one way or the other. Each person stands or falls before their own master, and Jesus seems to indicate when we find out who is truly in the kingdom (or saved) there will be surprise (the first being last and last being first, and those who thought they did certain things for Jesus being shut out because he never knew them). I would guess they are going to heaven, just like Uzzah who reached out and took hold of the ark of God, because the oxen stumbled, and was struck dead (2 Samuel 6:6).
I actually have never heard a single pastor, bible scholar or preacher (in the real world) ever suggest these people went to Hell. I have heard people ask the question quite a few times, and the reply was always “definitely not� or “we can’t know�.
I have no doubt there are those who say they went to Hell, I suspect it is not the orthodox view though. I don’t have any surveys or anything to prove it.

Yes, just killed.
What happens? The same as what happens for any Christian who dies. It is an interesting question which if you wanted to pursue probably needs a new thread.
I was being serious. I can’t think of any good reason to suppose that God could not strike someone down for lying now. From a Christian perspective, what has changed since the times of the early church? The fact that this is the only New Testament example of it (as far as I am aware) of course means it is not likely it will happen. I suppose it is for every reader to determine themselves if I did make sense.
From their perspective, if they went directly to heaven how could it be thought of as harsh? I understand why you feel it was harsh or could have been handled better. But I also understand that God understands what is better much more than I do.

Is this now your turn at sarcasm ?

LP

Baidarka

LP675 were they killed by God?

Muhwezi said some cult members -- who had been asked to sell their possessions and give the proceeds to the church -- had apparently demanded their money back when a prediction the world would end on December 31, 1999 failed to come true.

''When nothing happened on the 31st it appeared they (the cult's leaders) had a problem,'' he said.

The solution appeared to have been to kill unruly cult members. There were 59 children in the three graves in Buhunga, including the body of a two-year-old. ''When they killed the mothers it goes without saying that they had to kill the children as well,'' Muhwezi said.
http://www.apologeticsindex.org/m08.html

Possibilities

1- The story is a complete fabrication created to scare members of the cult into complete submission.
2- After the natural deaths of two cult members their double dealing shenanigans were discovered and it was decided that God gave them what they deserved.
3- After joining the cult the couple tried to back out, demanded their money back and were murdered. This story was concocted to explain their deaths.

http://www.gbs.sha.bw.schule.de/reign_of_fire.htm
http://www.mayhem.net/Crime/cults1.html
http://www.bergen.org/AAST/Projects/.../CultAkua.html

If you think that Peter's cult was different then modern money grubbing murderous cults, please present us with reasons to believe this.
We know from Christian writings that the Christian cult has always been obsessed with blood and gore. The Christian cult has always been obsessed with Martyrdom. Why should we ignore the possibility that Peter could have been a bad fellow?

Baidarka

The NT says that Peter denied Jesus 3 times.
Paul says the Peter is a no good hypocrite
Why should we think that these testimonies from the NT are false?
Why should we not think the worst about this rascal?