Konya001040

There was a question asked on this forum about who should present the proof of their beliefs: The Atheist or the Theist.

You can measure heat, but you can't measure cold. Cold is the absence of heat.

You can measure light, but not darkness. Darkness is the absence of light.

You can measure weight, but not emptiness. Emptiness is the absence of weight.

You can measure belief. You cannot measure disbelief, as disbelief is the state people are in before they are indoctrinated with beleifs. Therefore, it is not reasonable to force one to prove their disbelief.

Agnostic Theist

OK, then, quantify my belief.

Or we could just wait for all the atheists to come on here and, in grand chorus, proclaim

'It's true - we have no idea how much we disbelieve!'

seebs

Oh, not a problem at all. I freely admit that many people disbelieve.

So what?

If they want me to change my position, they'll have to convince me. Until then, we'll just disagree. It's all cool.

general_koffi

Actually you can't measure either "belief" or "disbelief"... :P

What is your unit of measurement?

No... The theist is required to provide proof, as they are asserting a positive. That's good enough, no?

MxM111

The actual parameter what you measure is called temperature. Then in everyday life you may want to say if it is cold or hot.

The actual parameter is called light intensity. And then again for non-scientific use you can call it light or dark.

And so on.

As for measuring belief/disbelief, the problem is not whether you actually believe or not, but whether one of the statements about God existence can be proven. You belief is absolutely irrelevant here, so there is no reason to measure it.

In other words; I believe that you believe or do not believe, but at the same time, I may not believe in what you believe. (Too much use of "believe" for me )

Atheos

The burden of proof is on whoever wants to convince someone else to change their mind. It's that simple. Until someone steps up to the plate and starts advocating for his or her position, we're all just like a bad kung-fu movie with a bunch of actors jumping around menacingly in a circle.

-Atheos

Bobinius

Yes, your belief is present. that's all we need. of course, you have no evidence, you just like to believe. it's called wishfull thinking.

Bobinius

I know, the evidence or logical justification does not matter. Your position is set. It's all cool: until you are not able to accomplish the burden it's just an irrational belief.

It's not a matter of strong confident beliefs, or someone convincing the other. It's a matter of truth.

MxM111

QFT

Bobinius

You're wrong on this one. The burden of proof is a not a part of some social contract, or about acting upon the other's beliefs. My burden of proof does not shift or change depending on my dialogue parteners and their convinctions. The burden comes from being rational and it is only my rationality that obliges me to believe based on adequate justification for the truth of my belief.