manwithdream

Anders Branderud,

I looked at the information on the site http://www.netzarim.co.il/
and I really could not find out about your beliefs about the virgin birth, but I was a little lazy. That is a complicated site and I did not know exactly where to look. I read about other things though.

I noticed that the site points out how Jewish anti-missionaries can't win against missionaries, and that your group can deal with them better. I agree that Orthodox Jewish anti-missionaries can't beat the missionaries very well. I am an amateur Jewish anti-missionary with my own unusual ideas about the Messianic proof quotes. I think that some of the quotes have mistakes in how the Hebrew letters were divided into words thousands of years ago, and I have tried to see if the letters can be regrouped into new words. I also have many other new and unusual arguments.

If you want to see some very different anti-missionary arguments that no one likes, except me, then you could look at some of my site's 200 pages of arguments. http://www.messianicmistakes.com/

Kenneth Greifer

No Robots

No problem. From A Rabbi Talks with Jesus, by Jacob Neusner, Donald Harman Akenson:

Time and again opponents of his—out-and-out enemies—turned out to be Pharisees, sometimes along with Sadducees, sometimes along with scribes. And Jesus had enemies, and had solid reason to be provoked by them. We have no reason to gloss over the strong hostility among these different groups of Jewish believers.—p. 113

No wonder the bad blood. Here was a man constantly in motion, walking the paths of the country, trying to win disciples and teach his message, and out there are teachers ("rabbis") competing with him for the very same people. His message to them was, you have nothing to give people. And we can only imagine their message to him.—p. 120

You have your quarrel with the Pharisees, and I don't defend their stupid harassment of you. If I were there that day, I would have protested.—p. 149

andersbranderud

No Robots,
What you write isn’t compatible to logic and historical facts:

Anyone educated in this field knows that the only sect of Judaism that had rabbis was the Pharisee and even the Christian NT described him as a rabbi. Parkes, Bagatti, Wilson, Charlesworth; all world-recognized authorities in this area leave no doubt that Ribi Yehoshua was a Pharisee, of the school of Hileil - who was also Pharisee. There is no serious dispute about that among scholars in the field. Ribi Yehoshua taught in "synagogues"; which were a strictly Pharisee institution.

During the first century those who practised Judaism were very devoted their religion. Just like King David and all other Jews throughout history they practised Torah (Instruction) – the Instructions of the Creator – with joy! The most prominent university professors in this field Prof. Elisha Qimron , author of the most authoritative treatise on 4Q MMT, demonstrates that all three of the major sects of first century Judaism followed both written and oral Torah. 4Q MMT demonstrates that it’s impossible that the first century Ribi Yehoshua would have breached Torah and Halakhah.

From Anders Branderud
Geir Toshav, Netzarim in Ra’anana in Israel (ww.netzarim.co.il) who are followers of Ribi Yehoshua – Messiah – in Orthodox Judaism

andersbranderud

Manwithdream:
Virginbirth is a Christian doctrine with no basis in the Jewish Bible.

From Anders Branderud
Geir Toshav, Netzarim in Ra’anana in Israel (ww.netzarim.co.il) who are followers of Ribi Yehoshua – Messiah – in Orthodox Judaism

andersbranderud

Larry Fox,
The earliest extant Church historian, Eusebius further documented (EH III.xxvii.4-6) that the original Netzarim accepted only the Jewish Tana"kh as Bible and only The Netzarim ("their own") Hebrew Matityahu (NHM) as an authentic account of the life and teachings of Ribi Yәhoshua, never accepting the the 2nd-4th century, heavily gentile-redacted (Greek), NT.

Netzarim Hebrew Matityahu was acknowledged even by the earliest Church historian (Eusebius, EH III.xxvii.4) as the only account recognized by the original — Jewish — followers of historical Ribi Yehoshua as the true and reliable record of his life and authentic teachings. All other accounts were dismissed by his original followers as false teachings. Netzarim Hebrew Matityahu is reconstructed here via direct translations from ALL known earliest extant documents: Hebrew from the 1st century C.E. through the Even Bokhan inclusive and Greek from the 1st century C.E. through the 4th-century C.E.

These Hebrew source documents include Talmud Gemara (e.g. Shabat 116b, 5th century CE), Nestor (e.g. lines 170 and 222, 9th century CE), Nitzakhon Yashan (e.g. #157, #221, #71, and #158; 13th century CE), Ms. Or. Rome #53 (12th century CE) and the Even Bokhan (composed in 1380 CE). The Greek sources include the papyri (e.g. P-64 c. 200 CE; P-86, et al.) and the Codex Sinaiticus and Codex Vaticanus (4th century CE) along with the Latin a-3, and the Aramaic Peshiteta (4th century CE, which was translated from the Greek sources).

There is no other similar work which is faithful to historical 1st century Judaism of Yerushalayim in rejecting post-135 C.E. Christian doctrines of Aelia C*a*p*i*t*o*l*i*n*a which were alien to 1st century halakhah, so that only followers of Yerushalayim who are adherants of NHM are compatible with legitimate halakhah and Judaism — whether of the 1st century or today.

From Anders Branderud
Geir Toshav, Netzarim in Ra’anana in Israel (ww.netzarim.co.il – quotes from this source) who are followers of Ribi Yehoshua – Messiah – in Orthodox Judaism

andersbranderud

Ipetrich,

You blur the historical person Ribi Yehoshua with the Christian J*esus. Your posts imply that it’s the same person. That is slander! You are accusing us to be followers of the Christian J*esus – a mang*od who violated Torah – that is slander!!

The Sages equate slandering someone's reputation with murder; and Torah requires, in that connection, that one may not stand idly by their brother's blood. Torah requires that each and every Jew who is Shomeir-Torah must immediately come to the defense of one who is slandered.
You have no grounds and no evidence to make such claims while Torah requires proof before making such allegations. You violate Halakhah! According to Halakhah, you are guilty of lashon hara – slander.

I recommend that you learn to distinguish between a historical 1st-century Pharisaic Ribi, who could only have taught Torah, and Hellenist-Christian fabrications, distortions and perversions that composed their Christian counterfeit. To sully the former with the idolatry of the latter is slander of the worst sort. It's long overdue to remove the feculent-cloak in which the Christians cloaked Ribi ha-Perushi ha-Tzadiq (the just [defined according to Torah]).

By your statements you misrepresent Ribi Yehoshua, Paqid Yirmeyahu ha-Tzadiq (the leader of Netzarim) and all other talmidim (plural of the singular: an indentured apprentice-student in Biblical usage) of Netzarim.

From Anders Branderud
Geir Toshav, Netzarim in Ra’anana in Israel (ww.netzarim.co.il) who are followers of Ribi Yehoshua – Messiah – in Orthodox Judaism

andersbranderud

Huon:
Read at www.netzarim.co.il; Glossaries-pages (at the first site); click at the link which includes the letter E; scroll down for Evyonim.

There you will find out more about the quote.

From Anders Branderud
Geir Toshav, Netzarim in Ra’anana in Israel (ww.netzarim.co.il) who are followers of Ribi Yehoshua – Messiah – in Orthodox Judaism