Newton Joseph

WHY I AM NOT A MOSLEM
by Ibn Warraq
Islam makes it incumbent on all adult males, provided they are not
Disabled and incapacitated, to prepare themselves for the conquest
Of (other) countries so that the writ of Islam is obeyed in every country
In the world.
But those who study Islamic Holy War will understand why Islam
wants to conquer the whole world….Those who know nothing
Of Islam pretend that Islam counsels against war. Those [who say this] are witless. Islam says:
Kill all the unbelievers just as they would kill you all! Does this mean that
Muslims should sit back until they are devoured by [the unbelievers]? Islam
says: Kill them [the non-Muslims], put them to the sword and scatter [their
armies]. Does this mean sitting back until [non-Muslims] overcome us? Islam
says: Kill in the service of Allah those who may want to kill you! Does this
mean that we should surrender to the enemy? Islam says: Whatever good there
is exists thanks to the sword and in the shadow of the sword! People cannot
be made obedient except with the sword! The sword is the key to Paradise,
which can be opened only for Holy Warriors! There are hundreds of other
[Koranic] psalms and Hadiths [sayings of the Prophet] urging Muslims to value
war and to fight. Does all that mean that Islam is a religion that prevents
men from waging war? I spit upon those foolish souls who make such a claim."
Ayatollah Khomeini

hinduwoman

Pure Islam, as espoused by Wahabis and funded by the Saudi Arabian Royals, is the most dangerous of the lot.
Syncretic Islam can coexist with other faiths.

River

What do Ibn Warraq ( Iranian), Caner Brothers ( Turkish), Irshad Manjii (African-Indian), Tasleema Nasrin ( Bangladesh), and Salman Rushdie (India) have in common?


They are all shady characters with post-traumatic child hoods. They all confuse what they see in their patriarchal culture with the Islamic religion and the Quran.......... these people are sell-outs who traded their religion to make a pretty penny. And the Western world will parade these figures in an attempt to undermine Islam. Though, in the end Islam will still be the fastest growing ideology in the face of the planet.


----River

Ronin

What end?

premjan

Muhammad was a bit like John Kerry, dude. He was a man kept by his rich wife most of his life. He was a bit of a fancy poet for those Arabs to take a fancy to and idolize. And he had only older women for wives most of his life. That's probably why he went for Ayesha. Dogma aside don't you think this sort of view makes more sense?

Seriously, this kind of thinking, of keeping the inner hatred boiling inside your chest can't be good for you or anyone. The Western world will attempt to undermine Islam?? Seriously, you make Islam sound like a paranoid revenge ideology.

lpetrich

First off, River, if Islam is such a super-feminist religion, then where are the Islamic clergywomen? Where are the female mullahs, imams, etc.? Lots of other religions have plenty of female clergy, so why not Islam?

And consider the freethinker community -- there have been lots of notable female freethinkers over the decades, and some very notable ones today. Our site has several female mods and admins, and some notable female participants, like QueenofSwords.

Compare what Aisha had done and what QueenofSwords has done -- had Aisha ever composed any original work, as QoS has done? Anything like QoS's Nutwatches?

River, how did you find that out?

While the Koran is a super feminist book, right?

If they really wanted to make money off of being ex-Muslims, they would have become Christian Fundies. Those guys make LOTS of money off of their religion.

Atheism just isn't very lucrative.

How are they being "paraded"?

reprise

So nobody called the OP on posting spam??

NJ, I am not a mod, but if you want to post inflammatory stuff here then it's usually quite wise to include a link to the original (so people can check for themselves that you've actually quoted in context) and to also make a comment yourself about the spam which you have posted.

So which particular brand of Islam is it to which you are objecting? And by what authority to you regard the Ayatollah Khomeini as speaking for all of Islam? Do you regard George Bush or Fred Phelps as speaking for the whole of Christendom?

What you have posted is why somebody else is not a Muslim. I could equally selectively post quotes from just about any religious or political leader on this planet to justify "why I am not...(fill in the ideology you wish to attack)".

So I'm kind of curious, is the reason why you personally are not a Muslim because of something that wingnut the Ayatollah Khomeini once said? If so, you really need to raise the bar on your role models.

Mughal

Dear river,

greetings.

Please, read the quran and think. The words the quran uses are nothing less than confusing to say the least.

Let us take word Al-jihaad fi sabeelillah=the struggle in the way of Allah. Does word jihaad exlude violence? No, because the word simply implies struggle by all means possible. Take word QITAAL=fighting. Again it means fighting by all means possible. Likewise the word darab=beating which is used in 4/34 for wife beating. Once again beating includes all possible ways and means. Is Allah wise or ignorant? Why would the almighty or all wise choose vocabulary that is full of holes?

The first principle of interpretation of the quran is understanding the quran by the quran ie tafseeral quran bil quran. Think, how sensible is this way of interpreting the divine book? The very rule that Allah leaves interpretation of his book to people is full of holes in itself. So the claim the quran is word of god is a false claim. How can you know the mind of god to say that this is what god means by a certain word or verse etc etc when there exist equally valid other interpretations? This becomes obvious when we examine the rule of islamic fiqh=shariah wherein we use analogy=qyas. The whole muslim ummah=community has been interpreting the quran wrong if I accept your point of view, because the result is that Allah has confused and thereby failed even his very own followers ie muslims who profess faith in him whole heartedly.

Whichever way you look at the quran, it fails to prove itself the world of almighty god. From the quran it seems Allah is a nasty character and he wants to turn even the civilised human beings nasty like himself. Muslims are mostly uneducated masses and mullahs are brainwashing them day and night with quranic teachings so the result is obvious.

Tell me how many times have you yourself thought about the universal mechanisms and how exactly they fit together? Unless one can realise how world works, one is incapable of understaning that god has no place in day to day running of the universe. People who think that only intelligent living things are capable of doing things cannot be expected to accept that universe can run without needing any god. Did you ever think that if universe is designed by god and that god is perfect then the universe cannot be defective? If universe needed god on daily basis to keep it running it properly then that would show that god is not a good designer because the thing he produced is incapable of working properly on its own. So dear friend, think about things before you label everyone else mentally disturbed in order to defend the indefensible ie the quran and the islam.

Regards and all the best.

Mughal

dear reprise,

greetings.

please say what you have to say on the matter and avoid telling others what they should or should not say about islam.

All brands of islam are nasty, some more than others. Only those muslims are peaceful who are ignorant of real islam that is found in the quran, the hadith and the shariah books and which is preached by mullahs of all brands. These people are more worried about their daily bread than Allah.

People who wish to reform islam in order to secularise it are dubbed infidels by muslims who go by the book.

For better understandimng of islam visit muslim forums and participate therein as a critic of islamic faith. Find out for yourself if you can say what you want to say.

It is forums like this that are helping muslims become open minded because people like Newton Joseph are making them aware of their short comings as regard their faith.

Nastiness is in islam not in people who inform us about it.

Inb warraq has his own site http://www.secularislam.org

Regards and all the best.

reprise

Would you kindly point to the post in which I told people what they should or should not say about Islam? I asked only that those that are here to defend their faith or argue against a particular faith - whether it is Chistianity, Islam, Buddhism, or I don't give a shit - stop just cutting and pasting their answers here and using them as some kind of "proof". If you're happy for the cut and paste Muslims to represent you, then fine. If you're happy for the cut and paste Christians to represent you, then fine. But we are actually playing in the higher fora here and people are expected to do something more than just cut and poaste the opinions of others in support of their own viewpoint.

I'm an equal opportunity atheist. I'll call anyone on their unsubstantiated arguments and their cut and paste resources.