Freethought & Rationalism Archive

jonesg · 10-09-2005, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chaupoline

That is why I said that Absolute Truth is a quest and not a prize. .

Absolute truth,
God is.

And thats the truth.

Chaupoline · 10-09-2005, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Biff the unclean

It’s possible to know a great deal. For instance one thing that I know is that the money your parents spent on tuition for those philosophy classes back in sophomore year was wasted money.

This is just one of your attempted fallacies. None of this was even remotely relevant to the topic. It was also wrong. You said you know what apparently is false. If you don't see it as an Ad Hom then perhaps you can acknowledge that it was a hasty generalization. You simply had insufficient evidence.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Biff the unclean

Ah there we go. The meaningless term “Absolute Truth�? is the Christian buzz-word I was saying it is. We study reality because we wish to know that which is real. There is nothing to indicate that a God of any sort exists much less a God who creates things.

You can believe in Absolute Truths and still not believe in God. How is this a "Christian buzz-word?"

Quote:

Originally Posted by Biff the unclean

Reading the story of Abraham we clearly see the story of a person with a psychotic condition. His “third faith�? are clearly delusions that are all too common in certain types of mental illness.

Why is it that a whole sub group of Christians feel that they can attack ordinary perceptions of reality attempting to show that reality itself is invalid so that they can sneak in a fantasy and put it on a par with reality? How stupid do they think people are?

It is simply acknowledging our limitations. There is always something we didn't conceive of. Our understanding of the universe is not perfect, because we are not perfect.

David B · 10-09-2005, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chaupoline

.

Absolute Truth is reality. You must first have faith that your perceptions are accurate, but realize that there is a possibility that they may not be. Using our possibly faulty senses we gather information about the universe in an attempt to try to understand more about Absolute Truth.

Absolute Truth is a quest and not a prize. Again, we will never know Absolute Truth. Is this plausible enough now?

The problem with viewing reality as Absolute Truth, as I see it, is that reality is in a constant (Oh gawd, philosophy strikes again - I mean reality changes all the time, not that its rate of change is constant)state of change. Could you argue that it's not?

David B (wonders if you really want to claim that Absolute Truth is in a state of change)

Biff the unclean · 10-09-2005, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chaupoline

This is just one of your attempted fallacies. None of this was even remotely relevant to the topic. It was also wrong. You said you know what apparently is false. If you don't see it as an Ad Hom then perhaps you can acknowledge that it was a hasty generalization. You simply had insufficient evidence.

If, according to you, nothing is a fact then why are you so concerned that I am writing something which isn’t a fact? After all the only reason you think that I’m wrong is because your perceptions indicate to you that I am. Since you have already established that you senses aren’t to be trusted to indicate if something is a fact or not then you must acknowledge the twenty seventh and five eights faith that Biff is always correct.

If you expect others to go along with your word games, then you’ll have to go along with the same game

Quote:

You can believe in Absolute Truths and still not believe in God. How is this a "Christian buzz-word?"

“I believe that the search for Absolute Truth is the search for the devine(sp)�? buzz, buzz, buzz, buzz.

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It is simply acknowledging our limitations. There is always something we didn't conceive of. Our understanding of the universe is not perfect, because we are not perfect.

It is willfully misrepresenting our limitations in the hopes of sneaking in your superstitions.

Back in Ireland we had an expression that a stupid person “couldn’t tell shite from Shine-o-la�? Shine-o-la being a brand of brownish colored floor wax.

That’s the contention you are making for the entire human race…that we are all stupid. And then, like some Christian does on these boards every other month, like clock work, you are going to contend that we should except religious bullshite on the grounds that our limited human intelligence says it’s indistinguishable from the shine-o-la of reality.
Why is this a buzz word for Christians? Because it’s meaningless and they keep using it anyway. It keeps getting discredited, the Christians wait a few weeks and then post exactly the same argument as though it were original thought.

CJD · 10-09-2005, 05:57 PM

For the life of me, Biff [CJD pauses and takes a large draught from his pint], I can't see why you've written me off so quickly. I wouldn't have been as exasperating, and I wouldn't have wasted your time being self-contradictory (and having to explain it). We couldv'e talked about "external standards" and all that stuff, and how they are all just constructed by us to tell us about us. And then we could laugh about it and drink some more. Really. I don't get it.

CJD

Chili · 10-09-2005, 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by austin2

so Jews are created in the image of G-d and have free will

. . . or at least they must pretend to have free will

Quote:

Christians are sinners born

A Christian cannot sin (1Jn.3:9) after he has been set free form the law and freedom from the law is needed to be a Christian (Gal.5:1-4). You are probably thinking of "saved sinners" who always die.

Chaupoline · 10-09-2005, 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Biff the unclean

If, according to you, nothing is a fact then why are you so concerned that I am writing something which isn’t a fact? After all the only reason you think that I’m wrong is because your perceptions indicate to you that I am. Since you have already established that you senses aren’t to be trusted to indicate if something is a fact or not then you must acknowledge the twenty seventh and five eights faith that Biff is always correct.

All we really have is abstract concepts. By spewing out fallacies you aren't progressing the argument. You are just throwing out nonsense. I know you are wrong because my reason tells me that your statements are fallacious.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Biff the unclean

That’s the contention you are making for the entire human race…that we are all stupid. And then, like some Christian does on these boards every other month, like clock work, you are going to contend that we should except religious bullshite on the grounds that our limited human intelligence says it’s indistinguishable from the shine-o-la of reality.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chaupoline

I don't know if the Bible is true, but I really don't know if it isn't true either. I just know that now, the fantastic is not really observable. That doesn't discount it though.

This was my first entry in this thread. Again, I am just stating that no one can prove that God exists, nor that God does not exist. I accept that what my senses is real. I accept that reality is still there even if I am not observing it. Neither of these are based on facts, they are only based on faith. Just like those who believe that the universe was created by a intelligent being. If you do not believe the same, it doesn't mean that God doesn't exist. If you do believe that God exists, it doesn't mean that God does exist. Absolute Truth states that reality continues regardless of whether or not we believe. We do not create God. God just is, or God is not. We do not create reality. Reality just is.

Absolute Truth is not relative to the observer. It just is. Believe it or do not believe it, reality will not change. It always follows a pattern. The form may be diffrent but the why is constant.

Biff the unclean · 10-09-2005, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonesg

Does Israel exist today ?

The Kingdom of Israel? No, it doesn't exist today.

Quote:

Does Judaism exist, is it a successful belief system ?

Considering that there are more Atheists in the United States, where atheism is frowned on, than there are Jews in the entire world and a very large portion of these are "cultural" Jews then the answer is that it exists but isn't very successful.

Biff the unclean · 10-09-2005, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chaupoline

All we really have is abstract concepts.

Then why won’t you let me hit you with a baseball bat?

Quote:

By spewing out fallacies you aren't progressing the argument. You are just throwing out nonsense. I know you are wrong because my reason tells me that your statements are fallacious.

Then you reason is faulty. Your attempts to discredit reality and to paint humanity is complete numb skulls isn’t progressing the argument either

Quote:

This was my first entry in this thread. Again, I am just stating that no one can prove that God exists, nor that God does not exist.

You blew that attempt to mislead when you posted

“When I stated that I believe in Absolute Truth, I am making the above claim. I believe that the search for Absolute Truth is the search for the devine. We want to know more about God and that is why we study God's creation.�?

Quote:

I accept that what my senses is real. I accept that reality is still there even if I am not observing it. Neither of these are based on facts, they are only based on faith.

They are based in trust in the facts. Faith, in this board at least, is reserved for religious beliefs.

Quote:

Absolute Truth is not relative to the observer. It just is. Believe it or do not believe it, reality will not change. It always follows a pattern. The form may be diffrent but the why is constant.

Now you are contradicting yourself again. If you cannot actually know facts then you cannot know what you have just stated

Chaupoline · 10-09-2005, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Biff the unclean

They are based in trust in the facts. Faith, in this board at least, is reserved for religious beliefs.

Why does faith have to be reserved for only religious beliefs? There are no concrete facts. Everything is based on speculation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Biff the unclean

Now you are contradicting yourself again. If you cannot actually know facts then you cannot know what you have just stated.

Logic is based on speculation.

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10-09-2005, 05:57 PM	#95
CJD Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: greater Orlando area Posts: 832	For the life of me, Biff [CJD pauses and takes a large draught from his pint], I can't see why you've written me off so quickly. I wouldn't have been as exasperating, and I wouldn't have wasted your time being self-contradictory (and having to explain it). We couldv'e talked about "external standards" and all that stuff, and how they are all just constructed by us to tell us about us. And then we could laugh about it and drink some more. Really. I don't get it. CJD

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