Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Toto · 02-09-2011, 10:13 PM

? Thecla was a virgin who rejected sex. In general, the Gnostics were into virginity.

mountainman · 02-09-2011, 11:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

? Thecla was a virgin who rejected sex.

Yes but she became a very popular and sensational character after her appearance as a woman baptiser in the "Acts of Paul". Her name was apparently scratched on the Codex Alexandrinus (?) and various churches arose not following Paul or Peter etc but Thecla.

Quote:

In general, the Gnostics were into virginity.

That's not good for survival of the species.
I think the Gnostics have been misunderstood.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Thunder Perfect Mind from Nag Hammadi

...[timmed]...

For I am the first and the last.
I am the honored one and the scorned one.
I am the whore and the holy one.
I am the wife and the virgin.
I am <the mother> and the daughter.
I am the members of my mother.
I am the barren one
and many are her sons.
I am she whose wedding is great,
and I have not taken a husband.
I am the midwife and she who does not bear.
I am the solace of my labor pains.
I am the bride and the bridegroom,
and it is my husband who begot me.
I am the mother of my father
and the sister of my husband
and he is my offspring.
I am the slave of him who prepared me.
I am the ruler of my offspring.
But he is the one who begot me before the time on a birthday.
And he is my offspring in (due) time,
and my power is from him.
I am the staff of his power in his youth,
and he is the rod of my old age.
And whatever he wills happens to me.
I am the silence that is incomprehensible
and the idea whose remembrance is frequent.
I am the voice whose sound is manifold
and the word whose appearance is multiple.
I am the utterance of my name.

...[trimmed]...

bacht · 02-10-2011, 09:38 AM

Quote:

In general, the Gnostics were into virginity.

That's not good for survival of the species.

Since when have feminists cared about procreation? Their main focus is on making life better for Westernized middle-class women who want a career.

As always, rich women can afford to let poor women do the dirty work, such as having babies.

Steve Weiss · 02-10-2011, 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

A new book:

God and Sex: What the Bible Really Says (or via: amazon.co.uk) by Michael Coogan.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Publishers Weekly

Readers looking for an unbiased appraisal of what the Bible says about premarital sex, homosexuality, and polygamy can trust Coogan, a biblical scholar of the highest order. . . . . He covers predictable ground in unpredictable ways, frankly noting, for example, the pervasive biblical assumption that women are subordinate while explaining how that reflects the Bible’s foreign and ancient context. The author does not overreach the evidence to promote his own agenda, but notes the Bible’s contradictions on certain issues and admits the limits of modern scholarship. Readers may be surprised to find a convincing discussion of evidence for God's own (sometimes unflattering) sexuality, in metaphor if not in fact. Coogan’s reminder at the book’s end that modern application of biblical texts requires interpretation and nuance is a welcome corrective to selective, literalist use.

Although why anyone would consult the Bible on sex is beyond me.

Just how did Christians think that Mary god PG'd by god? Is god well-hung? Can't he find his own babes without horning in on Joseph? Or is he only after virgins? Then god doesn't mind if his kid gets tortured and killed for speaking his mind. I wonder about this god dude.

Lugubert · 02-10-2011, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by semiopen

Somebody in the yahoo group AncientBibleHistory proposed a novel (at least for me) interpretation of Onan. The typical line is that God killed him for spilling his seed (Onanism) but the real problem is that he refused to impregnate Tamar in the Levirate marriage to preserve his inheritance. God probably doesn't give a shit about Onanism.

I must have heard this interpretation some 50 years ago.

Quote:

Also, I'm surprised I haven't posted my old hobbyhorse here about Joseph being punished for not doing Potiphar's wife, another total misunderstanding by the commentators.

Interesting angle, new to me.

Quote:

The reference below to a feminist perception of homosexuality is odd because there is nothing in the old testament about female homosexuality. It's all rabbinic in Judaism. The homosexual laws are just sodomy, but anal sex itself doesn't seem to be a problem unless it's a male doing it to a male with his penis, dildoes seem to be ok. Just cuddling is fine.

Anal is the OT norm for male-female sex. How else would Lev 18:22 “not … as with womankind” make sense?

Joan of Bark · 02-10-2011, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

Reviewed in BAR from a feminist perspective

Quote:

In declaring Genesis 3:16 a divine “decree” and, later, a “curse,” Coogan misreads. (He is in good company, from the apostle Paul and his successors through millennia.) These words of Yahweh to the woman do not characterize her status in creation but rather her life after disobedience. They do not “decree” patriarchy; they describe it. They announce judgment; they do not prescribe punishment, which comes later in expulsion from Eden. Further, Yahweh never “curses” the woman. This word the deity reserves for the serpent and the earth (via the man). In numerous ways, literary analysis disqualifies Genesis 3:16 as the paradigmatic proof text for endorsing patriarchy.

The bolded part moves into 'free will' territory. Even if it's just a description -- or more precisely, a prediction -- it comes from an omniscient god: therefore, it cannot be wrong. Ergo, men must rule over women or they are defying God's omniscience. To allow women equality with men would be going against His will and denying His perfection.

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

02-09-2011, 10:13 PM	#11
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	? Thecla was a virgin who rejected sex. In general, the Gnostics were into virginity.

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.