GakuseiDon

Dave31, let's take this one step at a time. Acharya S believes that (quotes from my review link given earlier):
1. The Pygmies had an advanced global civilization.
2. That "some of these sky people were the remnants of one of the advanced global civilizations destroyed by cataclysm"
3. "It would be most prudent to assume that, if they [the legends of the sky people] are true and not mythical, most if not all of these high-fliers were humans who had developed the capacity to fly."
4. Mummified remains of little people or "aliens" are reported to be found in caves or in Tibetan monasteries.

Acharya S specifically identifies the Pygmies as having an advanced global civilization. If the sky people aren't the Pygmies, then who are the sky people? What other candidates are there for the sky people, who came from an "advanced global civilization"?

And what significance in your view does Acharya S draw from "mummified remains of little people or "aliens" found in caves or in Tibetan monasteries"?

My main question to you, Dave31, is how do YOU rule out that the sky people are the Pygmies?

aa5874

Again, whether there are Sky people or Pygmies has NOTHING whatsoever to do with the description of Jesus as the Child of a Ghost in the NT who was WITNESSED in a CLOUD in the SKY.

Let us DEAL with the ACTUAL WRITTEN EVIDENCE in the Bible.

Jesus was the Son of a CLOUD or the SKY or HEAVEN.

Mr 9:7 - Jesus was the Son of a CLOUD

Lu 9:35 -
Ac 1:9 - What is Jesus doing in a CLOUD? Jesus is CLOUD MAN.

Lu 21:27 - Jesus was MYTH fable story with TALKING CLOUDS in the SKY. Remarkably it was a CLOUD that SNATCHED Jesus from earth and he VANISHED.

Perhaps he LIVES with "CLOUD" PEOPLE.

The HJ theory makes ZERO sense since we know CHRISTIANS of antiquity BELIEVED CLOUDS could TALK to Jesus and that he was TAKEN up by a CLOUD.

Where is the CLOUD with Jesus INSIDE, Gakuseidon?

In the SKY?

Toto

Please take that up directly with Richard Carrier. Email him at rcarrier at infidels.org

Hallet may deserve credit for being a humanitarian, in spite of being part of the evil Belgian colonial regime. But he has repeated current legends from the Pygmies as if they were ancient fact, with no possibility of validating them.

This is from 2006 and does not seem to recognize the problem with taking Pygmy legends at face value.

If you are going to do that, you might as well take the Bible at face value.

aa5874

Again, talking about legend from Pygmies have NOTHING whatsoever to do with the actual written evidence found in the NT, Church and EXTERNAL writings with respect to Jesus.

Hallet and Achyara S may be wrong or right about Pygmies but that cannot ALTER any written source of antiquity at all about Jesus.

Jesus was NOT even described as a MAN or Acted as a man in the NT so with the ABSENCE of any historical sources for HJ then Jesus was just a MYTH FABLE by DEFAULT.

Marcion's Phantom is a MYTH fable by default. There is No credible historical source to show Marcion's Phantom was human and did actually exist.

Plutarch's Romulus is a MYTH fable by default. There is NO credible historical source for Romulus and Remus.

We can talk perhaps for a hundred years about the legends of Pygmies but Jesus was a MYTH fable by DEFAULT since he was described as a Ghost, the Word that was God and the Creator of heaven and earth.

Amazingly, Gakuseidon, has always managed to DIVERT attention away from the OP.

Gakuseidon has ADMITTED that there is very little evidence for Jesus as a man yet has put forward a most absurd notion that Jesus was likely a MAN which is CONTRARY to the evidence.

It is FAR MORE likely that Achyara S position that Jesus was MYTH is correct than that there was an HJ based on Gakuseidon's OWN ADMISSION of very little evidence that Jesus was a Man.

Vorkosigan

I can't think of any New Atheist that holds that view. Most hold the opposite view, that the Bible is an important work that has heavily influenced western civilization, and thus, as Dawkins put it, should not be hijacked by religion.
http://richarddawkins.net/articles/6...ichard-dawkins

Harris responds directly to the crap you're pushing here:
http://bigthink.com/ideas/3123

"Sam Harris: Well this is a common criticism – the idea that the atheist is guilty of a literalist reading of Scripture no better than the reading of fundamentalist. "

or

http://www.samharris.org/site/full_t...bout-atheism1/
"We have made considerable moral progress over the years, and we didn’t make this progress by reading the Bible or the Koran more closely. Both books condone the practice of slavery — and yet every civilized human being now recognizes that slavery is an abomination. Whatever is good in scripture — like the golden rule — can be valued for its ethical wisdom without our believing that it was handed down to us by the creator of the universe."

Really, it's stupid to equate people who think with people who won't.

Vorkosigan

Dave31

The point is that there's a hypocritical double-standard going on here. There is a different set of standards for Acharya than for others like Carrier. Carrier gets a free pass on his own egregious errors and sloppy scholarship while Acharya gets bludgeoned to death for minor errors and even for perceived errors due to the lack of comprehension by readers. Case in point is GDon's obsession with the Pygmy issue. That's not even what her book is about but, leave it to GDon to turn it into something it isn't. So, maybe she'll re-phrase the bit on Pygmies to make it "idiot proof" or possibly remove it altogether in the Christ Conspiracy 2nd edition.

No, her forum thread is dated Feb 23, 2010 Pygmies in 'The Christ Conspiracy' and she is not taking Pygmy legends at face value at all - that's a complete misunderstanding. Her whole point is that further research is needed but if confirmed it could be very significant.

Have you read his book, 'Pygmy Kitabu'? Hallet is discussed in at least 20 books published by university presses and they certainly seem to appreciate his work. I don't see GDon or anyone else complaining about these 20 other books or the authors - only when Acharya S mentions Pygmies and suggests that further research into the subject is needed does it suddenly become an issue. Did you not notice that GDon doesn't go after Dr. Hallet or anyone else who writes about Pygmies? He only goes after Acharya for mentioning Pygmies and from there GDon turns it into a UFO convention complete with an image of an alien at the bottom of his article. GDon begins his article with a falsehood:

I've never not one time made that comment. So that's a completely false claim. GDon's entire article is a straw man with an endless stream of quote-mining out of context to prop up his 8 year smear campaign against Acharya S.

Here's another example of intellectual dishonesty by GDon where he quotes Acharya's article titled, 'Mysteries of the World.' GDon says "Acharya makes a strange connection between "little people" and "aliens":

"Mummified remains of little people or "aliens" are reported to be found in caves or in Tibetan monasteries. "

GDon conveniently skips the fact that Acharya was quoting someone else, who was properly cited and he also skips this quote from the top of that list:

Acharya herself doesn't even use the word "alien" anywhere in that article. She is quoting others, which GDon completely failed to note.

Here's another example where GDon says:

She does no such thing. GDon cites a "Jan 2011 blog entry." Even though, in bold Acharya says: "In posting this video, I am only interested in what the highly connected Dr. Wernher von Braun allegedly told Carol, as I think it's important."

GDon skips the comments by Acharya that destroys his entire selective premise. GakuseiDon's smear campaign against Acharya on this Pygmy issue is based entirely on a false premise. GDon's comprehension of what Acharya was actually saying is a complete divorce from reality. Toto, you and others here should know by now that we can never expect accuracy or intellectual honesty from GakuseiDon whenever he discusses Acharya's work.

Out of 5 or 6 books by Acharya only Christ Conspiracy mentions Pygmies across a mere few pages but, leave it to GDon to use it to bludgeon her entire body of work with over 2,100 pages of text, 5,700 footnotes/citations and 300+ images.

Was Acharya wrong for mention Pygmies at all? Maybe not - these articles are near the areas where the Pygmies existed:

Once again as per usual, all this Pygmy stuff should be moved into the proper Pygmy thread as it's an off-topic distraction here in what is otherwise a decent thread.

Again though, Find errors in these articles and I'll be sure to send them to Acharya

The New Zeitgeist Part 1 Sourcebook (August 2010)

Rebuttal to Dr. Chris Forbes concerning 'Zeitgeist, Part 1'

Were George Washington and Thomas Jefferson Jesus Mythicists?

ApostateAbe

So, Dave, I take it you think that the ancient global pygmy civilization thing is legit, but not the stuff about the flying sky people?

Dave31

Acharya never made any bold claims of legitimacy. She simply brought it up as an area of interest because if confirmed it certainly would be significant.

ApostateAbe

OK. She thinks that the stuff about the flying sky people is an area of interest that can possibly be confirmed?

aa5874

Let us DEAL with the MYTH fables about Jesus and the TALKING Cloud. The OP is about Myth Jesus and he was INSIDE a CLOUD on his way to heaven in Acts of the Apostles.

It is documented that a CLOUD recognized Jesus as its Son and that Jesus would come in the CLOUDS with POWER.

In the NT, when Jesus TRANSFIGURED, a CLOUD recognized Jesus as its Son.

It is CLEAR Jesus was just a MYTH FABLE like Marcion's Phantom Myth fable.

Mr 9:7 -
Lu 9:35 -Ac 1:9 -
Lu 21:27 - ApostateAbe why do you use books written by unknown authors about the Child of a Ghost and TALKING Clouds as an historical sources?

When Jesus was baptized by John he LEVITATED out of the River, the Holy Ghost entered Jesus like a Dove and a CLOUD was DELIGHTED with Jesus his Son.

ApostateAbe, why do think the Baptism story with LEVITATION, the Holy Ghost, the Dove and the Talking Cloud is NOT MYTHOLOGY?

It is CLEAR Mythology. If Jesus did NOT Levitate, the Ghost did NOT enter Jesus, and the Cloud did NOT talk there would have been no Baptism story for you to believe.