Freethought & Rationalism Archive

David B · 03-25-2006, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Half-Life

You guys are right, I have not considered the possibility that they could have added those things in after Jesus died. But, my question is, what is the point? If I make up words that someone said when they are already dead, what would I gain out of it? There was no point for Matthew to make anything up.

What was the point of Joseph Smith making up scriptures?

What was the point of L Ron Hubbard making up his religion?

What was the point of those Heaven's Gate guys believing that there was a space-ship in a comet, that one could access by offing oneself?

the list goes on.

What reason to believe Matthew more than any of the above?

ETA Hey, Half life - here is a link to a web site which is a support group for ex mormons. They publish emails sent to them by mormons. Have a look at some, and see how lame they are.

It might give you pause to think about your own posts.

David B

TomboyMom · 03-25-2006, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Half-Life

Isn't this interesting?

No.

Quote:

Many skeptics and Muslims like to claim Jesus NEVER said he was God. Please not verses 23 and 24. It is IMPOSSIBLE for Jesus NOT to be God by these claims. How can you justify this and claim Jesus never said he was God??

I don't care what he is supposed to have said. It doesn't interest me. You can cite scripture all day with no effect on me, because I don't take it as credible--any more than any other scripture. Maybe you could explain to me why you believe one--the new testament--and not another--such as the Koran?

orangebaw · 03-25-2006, 04:37 PM

Jesus wasnt raised from the dead, so the question is completely irrelevant.

cjack · 03-25-2006, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Half-Life

You guys are right, I have not considered the possibility that they could have added those things in after Jesus died. But, my question is, what is the point? If I make up words that someone said when they are already dead, what would I gain out of it? There was no point for Matthew to make anything up.

Unless you consider that the writers of Matthew and the other gospels weren't so much trying to present an accurate history as trying to "sell" their new religion to people...particularly Jews. These authors were trying to convince people that Jesus was not just another prophet, but the messiah that they'd been waiting for.

Looking at it through that lense, there is a very good reason for "Matthew" to stretch the truth or use accounts of Jesus that seemed to fit the mold of the messiah, regardless of their veracity. I'm sure these authors wholeheartedly believed that this Jesus they'd heard of was the messiah, and would likely interpret any accounts (true or not) of what he said or did in such a way as to reinforce that belief.

Or to put it another way, think of the gospel authors not as objective stenographers of history, but more like good defense lawyers who'll say anything to win their case.

Harry Bosch · 03-25-2006, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Half-Life

You guys are right, I have not considered the possibility that they could have added those things in after Jesus died. But, my question is, what is the point? If I make up words that someone said when they are already dead, what would I gain out of it? There was no point for Matthew to make anything up.

First off, thank you for admitting a mistake (that is rare in this forum). The bible was really formed by the Council of Nicea (sp?) around 300 AD. The council's goal was to make Jesus god and to mystify him up. This is when they created the Trinity, virginal birth and etc. They eliminated conflicting stories and proped up ones that made Jesus mystical.

hallq · 03-25-2006, 05:21 PM

David B-

Uh, nice point on the mormons, but you forgot to actually link.

S.C.Carlson · 03-25-2006, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stinger

First off, thank you for admitting a mistake (that is rare in this forum). The bible was really formed by the Council of Nicea (sp?) around 300 AD. The council's goal was to make Jesus god and to mystify him up. This is when they created the Trinity, virginal birth and etc. They eliminated conflicting stories and proped up ones that made Jesus mystical.

I read that in The Da Vinci Code too.

Anat · 03-25-2006, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by uncool

Finally, there is the possibility that Jesus thought he would, because he thought he was the Messiah - and that he was wrong, and that stories were made up to prove him right.

Not unheard of. From Messiah claimants

Quote:

Soon after Alroy an alleged forerunner of the Messiah appeared in Yemen (in 1172) just when the Muslims were making determined efforts to convert the Jews living there. He declared the misfortunes of the time to be prognostications of the coming Messianic kingdom, and called upon the Jews to divide their property with the poor. This pseudo-Messiah was the subject of Maimonides' "Iggeret Teman." He continued his activity for a year, when he was arrested by the Muslim authorities and beheaded at his own suggestion, it is said, in order that he might prove the truth of his mission by returning to life.

Harry Bosch · 03-25-2006, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by S.C.Carlson

I read that in The Da Vinci Code too.

Christians have a habit of relying on limited sources of information. You should expand your knowledge and go to the libruary. You could even do a google search and/or watch the history channel. The council is a documented fact. For god's sake, it's even in the Catholics Encypledia!

jjramsey · 03-25-2006, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stinger

Quote:

Originally Posted by S.C.Carlson

I read that in The Da Vinci Code too.

Christians have a habit of relying on limited sources of information. You should expand your knowledge and go to the libruary. You could even do a google search and/or watch the history channel. The council is a documented fact. For god's sake, it's even in the Catholics Encypledia!

He was being sarcastic. And I'd say he's pretty well-read.

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03-25-2006, 04:37 PM	#23
orangebaw Banned Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Edinburgh, UK Posts: 189	Jesus wasnt raised from the dead, so the question is completely irrelevant.

03-25-2006, 05:21 PM	#26
hallq Regular Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Madison, Wisconsin Posts: 204	David B- Uh, nice point on the mormons, but you forgot to actually link.

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