andrewcriddle

According to Metzger 'The Text of the New Testament' p 228 there are a few examples in Greek literature of ending a paragraph or section of a Greek text with GAR but it is definitely rare.

IIUC there is no example apart from Mark of ending a whole book with GAR.

Andrew Criddle

Vorkosigan

Over on JM Neil Godfrey pointed out that several works of Greek lit/history end the way Mark does, up in the air, so to speak.

Peter Kirby

I read once that someone had scrounged up a reference to a text ending with a conjunction (it may have said specifically gar). Of course, it's too bad I don't remember where I read that. So I would say that there are "0 or 1" known cases of a Greek work ending in gar.

best,
Peter Kirby

Mathetes

You guys seem to forget that Mark writes in a very bad Greek, sometimes agrammatical. It was second language to him.

The final "gar" may be there because the text was interrupted all right, but it may also be there because Mark did not even know that he was not supposed to end with a "gar" in Greek!

I don't think you can apply a reasoning based on "style" on a text with such a bad style as the Mark Gospel.

Chris Weimer

Rameus, I meant if you look at the Greek tragedy, the ending scene of Mark isn't so unusual. But Lord only knows where you get the idea that I think Mark is historical. :huh:

Haran

Actually, I just learned the other day from a paper I read (there is a link to the paper in a recent post to the Textual Criticism Yahoo Group) that the LXX has a verse that ends with gar and is very similar to the ending of Mark 16:8. I'll try to find the reference when I get a change if no one else finds it first.

Seriously though, how possible do others think it might be that Luke (and possibly others) expanded upon the longer ending of Mark?

Diogenes the Cynic

Upon what do you base your statement that Greek was Mark's second language?

Haran

Example of the usage of gar to end a sentence:

Genesis 18:15

á¼*Ï?νήσατο δὲ ΣαÏ?Ï?α λέγουσα οá½?κ á¼?γέλασα á¼?φοβήθη γάÏ?
But Sarrha denied, saying, I did not laugh, for she was afraid.
(Interestingly similar to the ending of Mark at 16:8: á¼?φοβοῦντο γάÏ? - for they were afraid)

Genesis 45:3

....αá½?Ï„á¿· á¼?ταÏ?άχθησαν γάÏ?
....for they were troubled.

The ending is uncommon, but sentences that end with gar, according to this paper, can be found in the dialogues and letters of Plato and Justin Martyr's Dialogue with Trypho (where the word apparently ends a paragraph as well). The paper goes on to mention some instances of gar closing significant portions of writing (such as the 2nd chapter of a letter and the preface of a book).

Mathetes

I thought it was pretty much accepted that Greek was a second language for all the NT writers, in the sense that it was not their mother tongue, even if some of them were reasonable fluent.

In the case of Mark, I do not think he was that fluent, and I can point to a number of indications:

- He uses "gignomai" all the time ("egeneto this, egeneto that"), which is not very "standard" Greek, and I have read that is a Semitism ("and it came to pass"). I don't speak Semitic languages myself, so I can't elaborate. Same with those constant "euthus".

- He jumps from one tense to the other. "And Jesus answered and says..." This could be admisible sometimes but Mark is irregular. He uses imperfect in lieu of aorist. "And Jesus was asking: 'what do they say...?' "

- Some examples of using wrong cases with prepositions.

We know that these are real errors because Luke and Matthew correct him a number of times.

In general, I find his style clumsy and repetitive, as compared to Luke or Paul, for example.

I am writing this from the top of my head, from what I can remember. If you want specific examples, I will need to do some homework.

Diogenes the Cynic

Matthew, John and Luke show know such signs, although I agree that Mark's Greek seems a little simple and uneven at times.
You're certainly right about the tense changes, it was the first thing I noticed when I first attempted to read Mark in Greek. As to Mark's fluency, I'm not so sure. His Greek did not seem to be very literary but that doesn't mean it wasn't an accurate rendering of spoken Koine.

What do you think their first languages were if not Greek? I can't see anything in Luke-Acts, Matthew or John to suggest anything but a Greek background. Their exclusive use of the Septuagint indicates that they did not know Hebrew and their use of Greek sayings traditions suggests that they did not know Aramaic.