ApostateAbe

Sometimes, direct causal links can be drawn between religion and killing. There is no external motivation for the state of Iran to execute apostates of Islam, but that is what they do because of the teachings of the religion. I think of ideologies as like computer programs, where the human brain is the computer. When a virus infects a computer to show you a nasty picture of tubgirl, you don't blame the computer. You blame the virus.

ApostateAbe

If you value reason, then it is perhaps wise to abandon emotionally-motivated dogmas. If there is a contest of things that legitimize an ideology, nothing can rival an irrational opposition to the ideology. The greatest gift to modern-day Christiandom, in my opinion, was the Soviet Empire.

For me, opposition to Christianity is beside the point. I don't have that in mind when I decide whether or not Jesus exists or whatever. I start with the observed facts, I examine the proposed explanations, and I attempt to make the most reasoned decisions. If you decide that the Christian gospels are comparable to Dick Tracy comics, that shouldn't be because you started with that presumption a priori.

Solitary Man

And this is relevant...how?

Sheshbazzar

As an Atheist, I discern no great help to the cause of THE TRUTH, or the benefit of humanity, in such undertakings as might be construed to give any measure of credence to Christian claims, or appear to give any support to their contentions about the reality of their mythological leader.

Rather I see such efforts as bordering upon "aiding and abetting" the enemy, in extending a helping hand to the goals of liars, despots, and murderers.
Treason against what THE TRUTH actually is, and against the welfare of all mankind. Does that make sense to you?

Not an "a priory presumption", In fact I've spent the last fifty eight years as a "Bible Believing fundamentalist", and have finally, this year came to my senses, and now see it as my sacred duty to renounce its lies as vehemenently as I ever defended them.

Solitary Man

So in other words, you'll sacrifice what is actually the truth for what you want to be the truth. This opposition to actual truth is my enemy.

Sheshbazzar - you posted long and many times here at IIDB, although I only ever remember you in BC&H (I've been here longer, just not as Solitary Man). I'm glad that you've finally realized that there is no God, and that Christianity contains false dogmas. However, consider your actions. What makes Christianity false? Certain claims, that's what. Is it the murdering and lies of Christians that is the enemy? No. For many people with or without the help of Christianity or religion in general have lied and murdered, even massacred. Do we shut our ears and eyes to their history, too? Do we pretend that Lenin never existed because Stalin butchered millions? Is the Little Red Book a fiction composed by wicked men because the Red Revolution ended the lives of millions of Chinese, and caused perpetual turmoil in an already volatile region, not yet to recover? No. It doesn't make sense. The existence of Rome in a sense is "aiding and abetting" Christianity, since Christianity grew up in Rome. So why are you denying one claim and not the other, if they both should disqualify in your opinion?

You're not making a lot of sense. Congratulations on seeing the light, but keep seeing the light, don't plunge into the darkness on the other side.

Sheshbazzar

No I will NOT sacrifice what is actually the truth.
And this is what I believe to be the truth and I will not compromise it for the sake of 'finding" an imaginary "Jesus".

"what you are positing is a book that was admittedly written at least 40+ years after the alleged "fact", by unknown author(s), who did not personally witness the alleged events, and did not personally hear the words that they put into their characters mouths, ought to be accepted and trusted as a suitable basis on which to conclude that the main protagonist was "someone that did something", but you don't actually know with any certainty, just who that someone might have been (outside of any details provided in the story) or what, of all the acts that he might have done, or of the words that he might have spoken, that he (and the other "story" characters) ever actually did do or spoke.
Really it just comes down to, that there is virtually nothing written within those fairy-tale "stories" that you, or anyone else, can positively identify as actually having ever been done or said by anyone named in the stories.
And you never will."

Sheshbazzar

Lenin and the Little Red Book just entered this thread (via you)
and you want to fault me for not yet discussing these here? Get real!
I have been discussing the subject of the thread; "Was Jesus ever an actual human being?" and why I reject the proposition, and the claims of those who would give it credence.
If you want to trash Stalin , Mao, Atheism or anything else not pertaining to the OP, go start another thread.

Solitary Man

Sigh. Another angry atheist. Well, I tried to reach out.

reniaa

As christians you attack us like we made the history of jesus up individually at this time but we didn't! the Gospels are there and have been for centuries, we didn't make josephus write about jesus in 90 AD but he did and he was a jew, we have not made a stone with pontius pilate name on it, evidences on herod the great and his known ruthlessness in keeping with the bible story of him. These written evidences are there as testimony to jesus and will always be there the most an atheist can say is "they lie, it's all myth" but you can't make it go away.

What prove have you got that jesus didn't exist? in a word NONE basically all you guys are saying is in my own head no person could do the miracles, healing etc so therefore he didn't exist therefore these sources of info are suspect in some way. the burden or prove is on you guys and you haven't produced any so far...

we have the historical documents on jesus, you guys are left trying in some way to discredit them.

French Prometheus

You're aware that the authenticity of the Testimonium Flavianum is very debatable, aren't you?