bacht

No, they were communist per the expectation of the New Age. The communism was a result of other beliefs, not an end in itself.

Toto

I think that most historians believe that the early Christian communities were communistic (with a small 'c'.) This does not depend on whether the Essenes constituted a communist society at a different time and place.

Opinions may differs as to whether this form of society was due to the teachings of Jesus. The Jesus Seminar itself only voted on the reliability of the sayings attributed to Jesus.

It is quite one thing to say that the early Christians practiced primitive communism as they waited for Jesus' return. This does not imply that communism of any sort is a viable economic policy for the entire society or for later, more complex societies that have accepted the idea that Jesus will not return from the clouds with a sword of vengeance any time soon.

kcdad

It was a basic requirement of the Kingdom of God, or New Age if you prefer. It was the logical extension of Hebrew tradition and Law.

kcdad

What a snarky reply.

small "c" communism... ??? What kind of apologetic nonsense is that?

Do you think that makes it more palatable to Capitalist egocentric self serving elites?

"The Jesus Seminar itself only voted "
... nonsense! The Jesus Seminar didn't "just" do anything... go check out their website and links...

Your last paragraph applies such poor analysis to New Testament descriptions of the early "followers of the way" that it is just... well... snarky.
The return of Jesus was experienced nearly every day in the early church... they were NOT waiting for some future military event. That "invention" came later when the Roman church took a strangle hold on the voices of Christianity.

aa5874

Artifacts of antiquity can be dated and analysed without any direct written records about the artifacts themselves.

Secondly it is extremely difficult to tamper with or forge artifacts of antiquity, they represent an almost indedible record of history.

kcdad

Please explain...

in your back yard you find a pot that carbon dates to 5000 BCE... ok... what do you know about it?

bacht

Dunno about the Torah, but yes the messianists at Qumran and the Christians described in Acts were expecting a 'kingdom of heaven'.

A non-apocalyptic reading of the Law might yield the promise of God's reign in this world, but I don't think the old social & economic orders were specifically ruled obsolete.

Toto

It's marxist. I read a lot of marxist / Marxist analysis in my misspent youth. Marx saw human history as starting with an ideal primitive communistic society (analogous to the Garden of Eden), which then became corrupted, but after the revolution, would return to this ideal state.

And may I suggest a dictionary, so that you understand the words you use when you try to insult someone? Also, if you dispute something, it's good form for you to post a link.

You can find the Jesus Seminar, or what remains of it after the death of its founder, here: www.westarinstitute.org/

kcdad

If that is small "c" then what is big "C"?
Are you going to try and tell us it is governmental system that has been tried someplace and failed??????? HAAHAHHAHAAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHA

There is no difference... little "c" is a capitalist's way of inferring that it is not viable, it is theoretical and not at all what you really get if you ever tried it.

May I suggest you reread Marx... I don't find that idyllic utopia fantasy description of communism at all (Maybe you should try Heilbronner's Marxism For and Against as a starting point.
In fact I think Marx is clear that modern communism is not that garden of Eden image but the result of the overthrow of social structures that support the elite hierarchy.

Ther can not bea communist government.. it is an oxymoron. There are Socialist and Fascist states that call them selves communist... but so what? We call ourselves a democracy and a land of liberty.

aa5874

And you find a piece of paper that was a forgery carbon dated to the 4th century and you don't know that it was a forgery.

Well, I would have a 7000 year old pot and you would have a 1600 year old piece of toilet paper.

You know what?

If you found the "TF" in your backyard, you would have found a piece of toilet paper.