John A. Broussard

Good point, especially since it was an "image in the walls" that was found.

Orthodox_Freethinker

I think what it means is that the Shroud was found within a wall or between walls. If it were able to surive that long without being noticed, that would truly be a miracle.

Peace.

John A. Broussard

What with three heads of John the Baptist to be found in European churches, I think it quite reasonable to assume that there would be more than one Jesus shroud making the rounds.

John A. Broussard

You think what it means? Do guesses in this context count?

Orthodox_Freethinker

If you seriously would like to learn more concerning the shroud, please PM me and I will find some more sources for you.

Personally, what I would like to do is return to the OP.

Peace.

lenrek

Note to bold text

For non-believers, what you stated is not a sign of miracle, is sign of fraud.

John A. Broussard

Fine with me.

Should you want to learn more concerning the shroud, just do a search on this forum. Info includes not only a complete provenance, but how to construct a similar shroud with 13th century mateials.

Shalom.

Orthodox_Freethinker

Again, that would beg the question of why the shroud appears to be an X-ray image and why it contains the imprints of plants and objects native only to the area in which Jesus was crucified. Furthermore, why is the blood real blood?

Back to the OP -

What is wrong with having faith in God if there is no real evidence against His existence?

peace.

Bobinius

Do you know what is an X-ray image? Or how is it obtained?

The shroud is not in any way similar to an X-ray image. The shroud reflects paint from a baserelief. It does not come in any way from a 3d object. It can be reproduced easily using baserelief. An imprint from a 3d face or object looks distorted in 2d. Not the case here.

The plants can be planted. And if you are reffering to the last 'dating' in the last years, with a secret method, yes it looks like a hoax dating. Anyway, you can make a shroud in the XIV th century using materials from Israel. No miracle.

There is no blood. The myoglobin and the other components are not in the amount expected if it was blood. It is red ochre: it can be visualised using Electronic microscopy too. Anyway, even I can use blood on a cloth. What does it prove?

It's not the case that there is no real evidence against God.

Anyway, there is no real evidence against Easter Bunny either. Usually, unfalsifiable concepts have this property. There is no real evidence against a special dwarf living on Pluto. What is wrong with having faith in the Easter Bunny or the dwarf on Pluto?

The question is: what real evidence is for God? None, good, it is irrational to believe.

Alf

Also, don't forget that EVEN IF he manages to prove that these two are one and the same he STILL haven't shown that this 6th century relic actually is authentic.

I mean, even if you do find remains and DNA from a human there, we still have exactly zero evidence that this is a god on earth miracle working Jesus as opposed to a John Doe from Palestine that was crucified around the same time.

The requirements for evidence to prove his case is a mountain huge.

Alf