Malachi151

So it does specifically use the word for Christ, not anointed, okay, that's the main thing I wanted to know.

Peter Kirby

What word meaning "anointed" were you looking at as an alternative?

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Peter Kirby

spin

I'm not a great one for unfinite improbability (for HHGG aficionados). I don't think it works. We have a number of less probable aspects to the issue.

1. Not father but brother.
2. Not after but before. This is usually when the qualifier has just been mentioned.
3. The qualifier (Jesus) gets qualified (called Christ), but he's supposed to be there to qualify not to get qualified with a blatantly christian epithet.

So all you need do is find an analogous example. That's not asking too much is it, Peter?

If you want to work directly on the Greek, please don't let me stop you.

ETA: The qualification "christ" is also noteworthy, for as I've often said, out of the 40 uses in the LXX, the AJ text only features the word in two places. Do you need to guess where?


spin

Malachi151

I don't know since I don't know Greek

What I'm trying to ask is, what is the underlying Greek, and are there other ways to translate this underlying Greek, and does the underlying Greek tell us anything that this English translation doesn't?

Peter Kirby

Does it help if I tell you that the Greek noun for 'anointed' is christos?

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Peter Kirby

Clivedurdle

Pardon? When where and how did a differentiation occur?

I know I have been banging on about this, but priests made oils to annoint, a central part of the rituals - cannot it be legitimately argued they were christs?

When we read the word christ now we bring a huge amount of baggage about co-equal son of god, resurrection second coming stuff etc etc etc

How do we know how this term christ was used? Even in the gospels and by Paul?

Malachi151

I agree with you, I have argued the same thing, indeed I also brought it up to Richard Carrier. I don't know Greek, which is obvious by now so I'm just trying to see if there are other ways to translate this, and I'm confusing the matter by my lack of language skills here.

I agree that it seems to me that Josephus is calling "Jesus, son of Damneus" an anointed one, meaning a pious person, HENCE explaining WHY he is being given the high priesthood.

Ive brought this up several times, but a variety of people say no, that there is evidence of interpolation, including Carrier.

gstafleu

We're back where we were a little while ago: translating "christos" as Christ (notice capital) may be misleading. It is usual to translate Iêsou tou legomenou Christou as "Jesus who was called Christ." Until someone who knows koine corrects me, I maintain that an equally good translation is "Jesus who people said was anointed." That he is a slippery character is nothing new .

Gerard Stafleu

Clivedurdle

Is the problem that we have two possible non ockhamite interpretations on the boil here?

1 The xian view that this is talking about Jesus Christ
2 A rejoinder to that that this is interpolated.

I think there is a much simpler and clearer explanation - it does mean Jesus the high priest the annointed one (or annonter) and it is only later thinking that morphed the meaning to the all singing and dancing Christ.

So I would also double check all occurences of Christ everywhere that they are not referring to Chanel predecessors. Christ is a chain of jewellers in Germany !

Malachi151

I had either started a thread on this, or posted about in some other thread, which I cant find now, but there is no other use of "Christ" in the English translations of Josephus, aside form the TF. Ive also asked for other examples of the use of the word christos, or whatever in other literature where it clearly refers to someone being anointed in the pious sense, not that they were "THE Messiah"